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View Diary: Eggs on their faces: Pollsters Mason Dixon and Suffolk incredibly wrong (82 comments)

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  •  We won. Get over it. (6+ / 0-)

    It is time for us to think about why we lost the rest of the country. My view has to do with a lack of education, and a lack of manufacturing jobs, in places like:

    - Missisippi
    - Arkansas
    - Alabama
    - Missouri
    - Wyoming

    et cetera.

    Many of these states are largely agrarian. Farmers aren't stupid -- it's just that in an industrialized nation, farmers are often left behind. People in cities forget where their food comes from. It doesn't come from the grocery store -- that is where it ends up. Look at China, and you'll see this playing itself out in a much more exaggerated way.

    These are only thoughts. But I know that I'm correct when I say that a lot of Americans think that they are better than people who aren't educated. Who is at fault for that? Absolutely, definitely, without a doubt -- the very Republicans "leaders" who claim the "moral high ground" when they themselves do and say and enjoy the same things that their Democratic opponents do. But we need to shine a light on this, or else the same kings and queens -- the same players in this same-old chess match -- will continue to rule over their (increasingly irrelevant) feifdoms.

    They may be increasingly irrelevant too -- but let's not forget that they still are relevant. And they can still make life more difficult for all of us.

    •  The sad answer to this question is that (6+ / 0-)

      in the modern era of targeted battlegrounds we just don't try to win in those states. It will take state party grassroots to bring them around and it will take time.

    •  Many of the 47% live in these places (4+ / 0-)

      and voted for Romney and against their own economic interests. Unfortunately, there are two big factors in turning those places. The Voting rights act makes getting white votes there very difficult and they are much more likely to be influenced by what their pastors tell them. Their pastors tell them that President Obama is a muslim baby killer, then they believe he's a muslim baby killer.

      I saw a comment on Dick Morris' website that said that Obama was going to appoint Sharia Judges to the Supreme Court. I guess the point is that they are strongly influenced by their religious beliefs and believe that all democrats are inherently evil and non-Christian.

    •  Observations (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sethtriggs

      1.  Racism

      2.  Poor education

      3.  RELIGION

      And from religion derives misogyny, tribalism, and Old Testament-style notions of sin/retribution/God's judgment for your misfortunes.

      We can maybe do something about education.  

      IMO, when education is available and there's a reasonable standard of living, religion is less of a problem.  Religion is where you turn when life sucks.  Make life suck less, you're less in passionate thrall to the preacher (or imam, or what have you - I believe this is important foreign policy, as well).  But I firmly believe that religion is at the core of our problems with Repub voters, and until people become more secular we will always have this block of "dead-enders" who vote in ways that are absolutely contrary to their financial and personal-liberty interests.

      Racism is going to be an issue even when there's not a black man on the ticket.  They think the "47%," the "takers," are all minority "welfare queens."  Maybe aging of the population helps, but I think racism will always be a factor.

      Realistically, people who have certain lifestyles (e.g., rural) have different world-views than people with other lifestyles (urban).  They have different concerns, different perceptions, different neighbors.  You don't just educate people in those communities and they stick around - many leave to go someplace more cosmopolitan once they've obtained an education; the uneducated stay behind.  

      I don't know that we can "bring up" the mostly rural deep South to ever be receptive to what interests folks in NYC or SoCal, for example.  It's not a closed system, for one thing, and people in NYC often self-select to be there, leaving places like the deep South, so even bringing in education and better standards of life isn't going to fix the problem.  I'm not sure that it's realistic to expect it.

      Thought is only a flash in the middle of a long night, but the flash that means everything - Henri Poincaré

      by milton333 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 10:46:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's a tribal/cultural divide (0+ / 0-)

      In rural areas the culture is completely different.  Here in rural MI, I feel like I live in Rush Limbaugh country. That's who influences the way people out here view and talk about politics, including many farmers.  It's probably not fair to declare them stupid people, but listening to Limbaugh and Fox News for one's news is a pretty fucking stupid thing to do.  

      I'm not so sure it's education, either.  The schools out here aren't that bad, and like anyplace, there are high acheivers in every class.  After high school, many of those high acheivers leave the area to go to college, and they don't come back.  Even many of the average acheivers leave rural areas for better jobs, so there is a strong self selection against those who are open to new ideas.  The ones who remain tend to be content with the way things are, which is backwards redneck republicanism.  Some of them even stay here because they don't want to live around minorities, they talk about "white culture" even though they're the most un-cultured people you'll ever meet.  That's pretty fucking stupid, in a tribal way.  It's an us versus them attitude that is stoked by Rush and Fox and Beck and all the other usual suspects.  

      "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

      by Subterranean on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 12:09:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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