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Some people just know how to say it, so I'm gonna shut up and let the former Mr. Sulu do so.

"The ruling elevates the rights of a FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION over those of its women employees and opens the door to all manner of claims that a company can refuse services based on its owner’s religion,” Takei wrote.

(O)ne wonders,” he said, “whether the case would have come out differently if a Muslim-run chain business attempted to impose Sharia law on its employees.

“Hobby Lobby is not a church. It’s a business — and a big one at that,” he continued. “Businesses must and should be required to comply with neutrally crafted laws of general applicability. Your boss should not have a say over your healthcare. Once the law starts permitting exceptions based on ‘sincerely held religious beliefs’ there’s no end to the mischief and discrimination that will ensue.Indeed, this is the same logic that certain restaurants and hotels have been trying to deploy to allow proprietors to refuse service to gay couples.

Chillingly he's not even a slightly wrong on that last point, the religious push-back against granting LGBT rights by corporations has already begun... you'll find the details just beyond the Orange Squiggle of Mordor below.

Religious Organizations and companies are in fact already attempting to push back on President Obama's brand new rules requiring LGBT equality for Federal Contractors in the immediate aftermath of Hobby Lobby. 'Cuz clearly, They. Gots. Religion.

The day after the Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby ruling, a group of religious leaders sent a letter to President Barack Obama asking that he exempt them from a forthcoming executive order that would prohibit federal contractors from discriminating against LGBT people.

"Without a robust religious exemption," they wrote, "this expansion of hiring rights will come at an unreasonable cost to the common good, national unity and religious freedom."

The letter didn't mention the Hobby Lobby decision directly. But one of the signees, Michael Wear, the Obama 2012 veteran, told The Atlantic that the court decision meant the administration would need to address such concerns.

"The administration does have a decision to make whether they want to recalibrate their approach to some of these issues," he said.

So just as Justice Ginsberg and Mr Takei have suggested, the Hyper-Religious are already attempting to capitalize on the SCOTUS new granting of the rights of an human individual to a corporate entity for the specific purpose of denying the rights of a human individual.

One does wonder just how loudly they would squeal if a non-christian, or a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Ba'hai, a Sikh, a Jewish, a Wiccan, an Amish, an Athiest or a Satanic "closely-held" corporation were to proclaim they no longer had to abide by, respect, hire or provide services for -- Pro-Life Christians?

"Oh, no you don't - No 'Religious Freedom' for You!  Or you, or You!"

I understand that in this decision the SCOTUS Majority opinion claimed that they were not granting the equal legitimacy of such follow on requests, but they've sent up the flare signal, they've kicked open the door, and soon now the potential avalanche may follow.  I'm not really sure they can stop all that snow from crashing down with just one teeny, tiny little rhetorical umbrella of "Because, uh, no".

And why exactly would others - particularly on the hard right - not pile on?  It's not like we've seen anything resembling restraint, or tact, or reason coming from the them in the Hobby Lobby wake.

Not From Erick Erickson.

Not from Rush Limbaugh.

"Pregnancy is something that you have to do to cause. ... Yet we treat it as a great imposition that women need to be protected from. It's a sickness, it's a disease, it's whatever, and there's gotta be a pill for it," he said on his show. "Yet they wouldn't have the problem if they didn't do a certain thing. It's that simple."
Yes, that's right women who suffer from polycystic ovarian syndrome, are at a risk of ovarian cancer, Endomitriosis and heavy menstral bleeding don't need a pill, or a shot, or a patch or an IUD to help with that.  Or so the Wingnuts continue to believe.  [It does always amaze me that so many of these "Right-to-Lifers" repeatedly fail to recognize that without access to effective healthcare - regardless of cost - some of us post-embryonic-Americans Will. Not. Live.]

And they also don't believe that both men an women have a civil right to enjoy sex with the (adult & consenting) person of their choosing either.

Not according to Rep Mike Lee who was asked....

"whether or not a person who runs a business should be forced to provide something that is largely for recreational behavior, if it goes against their religious beliefs."

"Yea, that’s right, that’s right," Lee responded.

No, no - that's kinda wrong - because what you smell right there isn't "Recreation" - it's the very heart and soul of "Freedom, Baby, yeah!".

But not Freedom for All because now we're not just having sex between Adam and Eve, or Adam and Steve, we're all having sex with Adam, Eve, Steve and Hobby Lobby.  Gee, is the Bath House is getting kinda crowded in here?  And who keeps putting all these cheesy paper-mache' flowers everywhere? Did we order these?

Takei - bless his soul - also pointed out the basic hypocrisy of Hobby Lobby's business practices in regards to religion.  Noting that...

...Hobby Lobby has invested in multiple companies that manufacture abortion drugs and birth control. The company receives most of its merchandise from China, a country where overpopulation has led to mandatory abortions and sterilizations for women who try to have more than one child.
You would think that in all the time since Hobby Lobby filed this suit in 2010 they might have considered divesting in the manufacture of the same types of drugs they now say are "intolerable" to their religious views, or that they might possibly consider cultivating a supply line that doesn't subsidize forced abortions and sterilization since one would think that might "shock the conscience" of those with such deeply "sincerely held" beliefs.

Or apparently not.

The hypocrisy of this is so glaring, that even CNN took a few moments to drop their Malasyan Flight Search Goggles and take notice....

CNN host Ashleigh Banfield on Wednesday highlighted the “hypocrisy” of Hobby Lobby for investing in companies that made the same birth control products that it refused to provide to female employees.

“The critics are calling Hobby Lobby’s 401(k) investments hypocrisy at its finest,” Banfield emphasized on Wednesday, adding that CNN had not gotten an explanation from the company after giving it “plenty of time” to respond.

“I don’t even know where to begin on this one,” the CNN host remarked. “I kept thinking to myself, this had to be an accident. But then I thought, it’s no accident when you are in the middle of the biggest political storm — all the way to the Supreme Court — and, yet, your guys aren’t aware of what your investments are in your very, very large 401(k)?

Nope, no way, this was no boating accident,

Ultimately Takei called for a Boycott of Hobby Lobby and another other company that attempts to impose it's religion on it's employee or anyone else.

“While we work to overturn this decision by legislation, people of good conscience should BOYCOTT any for-profit business, including Hobby Lobby, which chooses to impose its religious beliefs on its employees,” said Takei. “The only way such companies ever learn to treat people with decency and tolerance is to hit them where it counts — in their pocketbooks.”
One wonders - yet again- that if not only boycotters but picketers began to show up at Hobby lobby stores with meme signs that said "Corporation = Person, Blystocyst = Person, Woman = Meh!", or perhaps some giant xerox copies of their 401(k) earnings statements, or pictures of factories in china with women packed into dorms surrounded by suicide nets or maybe just a simple single bloody hanger...

That Hobby Lobby would ask the Supreme Court to grant them a 35 Foot Buffer Zone?  

Just, y'know, because... Freedom?


Originally posted to Vyan on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 09:12 AM PDT.

Also republished by PostHuffPost: Connection-Conversation-Community .

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Comment Preferences

  •  This is priceless... (38+ / 0-)
    But not Freedom for All because now we're not just having sex between Adam and Eve, or Adam and Steve, we're all having sex with Adam, Eve, Steve and Hobby Lobby.  Gee, is the Bath House is getting kinda crowded in here?  And who keeps putting all these cheesy paper-mache' flowers everywhere? Did we order these?
    Thanks for the great diary and the ongoing laugh.  Made my day.

    The only hawk I like is the kind that has feathers. My birding blogs: and

    by cany on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 09:30:50 AM PDT

  •  I am an observantly religious man. (77+ / 0-)

    I like my religion on Sundays, and I don't like my religion politicized. Politicizing religion debases it. It's inappropriate.

    I am secure enough in my faith that I do not think that the State has to protect it in this kind of way. The Hobby Lobby folks, and the folks on the SCOTUS seem to believe that God is a feeble entity, which needs some kind of Medieval protection from the State. My God is bigger than that.


    by commonmass on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 09:31:25 AM PDT

  •  Here's the 7-1-14 Letter to Obama link (14+ / 0-)

    Religious Exemption Letter to President Obama 2014-07-01, the day after the SCOTUS decision.

    The Atlantic broke the story.

    Signers include Rick Warren (Saddleback Church), Fr. Larry Snyder (CEO, Catholic Charities USA), Stephen Schneck (Dir., Inst. for Relig. & Democ., The Catholic University of America), Andy Crouch (Exec. Editor, Christianity Today) and several more.

    •  As the diary notes this letter does not mention (8+ / 0-)

      the Hobby Lobby decision and was clearly in the works weeks earlier and is in response to a forthcoming  Executive Order. It's difficult to determine how the Hobby Lobby decision will impact the administration's response to the letter and any legal case that might result. I think characterizing the letter as a response to the Hobby Lobby decision isn't accurate. The letter, and the issues raised, are more like the religious affiliated organizations and their negotiations with the administration over the ACA mandates, rather than the for profit Hobby Lobby case.

      "let's talk about that" uid 92953

      by VClib on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 09:52:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Letter is a piece in a campaign. (13+ / 0-)

                 VClib, thanks for your reply.  The letter is like an arrow that can be used alone but is much more useful in conjunction with a bow like the SCOTUS decision that granted exemptions to private money interests that deprive people of "common good".

                  The letter immediately (1st paragraph) seeks religious exemption in federal policies using the "common good" language. That the policies in the situation happen to be about contractors and LGBT employment is not the issue.

                  The issue is big money rightwingers using exemptions based on "faith" as thread, fabric and textile to use in making a flag to rally people for a huge self-serving campaign that is not at all about preserving, protecting, defending and strengthening the good of us all. That letter goes on to say:

        Without a robust religious exemption, like the provisions in the Senate-passed ENDA, this expansion of hiring rights will come at an unreasonable cost to the common good, national unity and religious freedom.
                 The campaign is based on strategy to expand the doctrine of corporate personhood and its vision of how things should be is to consolidate ability to capture control and ownership of resources. The campaign tactics require regulations to be understood with regard to free speech, religious liberty, right to interpret and if desirable to refuse health care assessment and treatment even when contrary to best practices in public health policy, employment and employment insurance (like social security) policy, etc. The rubrics and rhetoric of free speech, religious liberty, public health, defense, common good are the stars in the flags of that campaign.

                  But also the campaign needs an opponent. A group of persons who some call "LGBTQ" are convenient for this purpose.

                  The instigators of the letter (the "brains" of it) are not necessarily its signers/spokespeople (the "mouth" of it). Probably those who signed are also the tools of the even more tiny elite behind this campaign.

  •  Sharia, get real (12+ / 0-)

    I believe their ruling was
    sincerely = Christian

    This ruling is such a contradiction to the previous ACA ruling. It was ruled that it was a tax. We do NOT get to with-hold tax based on our religious beliefs. If taxes pay for BC coverage for employees, why does HL get to bail?

  •  If the SCOTUS (11+ / 0-)

    does refuse to hear such cases or to rule favorably on them then they are making a mockery of the equal protection clause.

    Maybe that's the real target here. Voting rights, marriage equality, and all the other liberal "evils" that have wingers gnashing their teeth all stem from that pesky 14th amendment.

    Light is seen through a small hole.

    by houyhnhnm on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 09:59:13 AM PDT

  •  Not germane to this excellent diary, but I (23+ / 0-)

    kinda liked this:

    Orange Squiggle of Mordor

    ...Son, those Elephants always look out for themselves. If you happen to get a crumb or two from their policies, it's a complete coincidence. -Malharden's Dad

    by slowbutsure on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 10:00:32 AM PDT

  •  Why stop at Abrahamic corporate persons? (23+ / 0-)

    Supreme Court Rules JCPenney Allowed to Sacrifice Employees to Appease Cthulhu


    July 1, 2014 - Citing the newly-established precedent of corporate-religious exemption, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled Tuesday in favor of JCPenney, upholding the company's right to sacrifice pure-hearted employees in order to assuage the Dread Lord Cthulhu, Bringer of Madness...

    ...The case of Thurston v. JCPenney was decided 5-4, with the traditionally conservative justices forming the majority. Justice Kennedy, often the court's sole swing vote, was seen by reporters to be looking about warily and muttering to himself through much of the proceedings, as if hearing voices that weren't there.

    “Our discomfort with the beliefs and practices of their faith must not supersede their religious freedoms,” Justice Scalia wrote in the majority ruling. “By upholding corporate rights, we protect the rights of the individuals who compose the corporation, at the mere cost of a bi-weekly ritual sacrifice of the still-beating heart of a nubile intern or receptionist.”...

    "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

    by quill on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 10:06:25 AM PDT

  •  Sex is "recreational behavior." (18+ / 0-)

    I'm glad someone finally admitted that.  Now conservatives can stop hand-wringing about premarital sex, women's sexuality, and homosexuality.

    Tomorrow is July 4th.  Let freedom ring, and listen to all the banging.

    "It ain't so much the things we don't know that get us in trouble. It's the things we know that ain't so." (Artemus Ward)

    by Silencio on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 10:12:51 AM PDT

  •  Thank you, Vyan... (11+ / 0-)

    I posted a link to an article in last night's Overnight News Digest
    from addictinginfo.

    Oh myyyyyyy…George Takei is pissed off (in his own super calm way) at the conservative wing of the Supreme Court and rightly so. Takei posted his response to the unprecedented decision on the website for his play, Allegiance: A New American Musical  and it’s a beautiful take down of the ruling and the reasoning (in the loosest sense of the word) behind it:

    All sane people detest noise. Mark Twain

    by Man Oh Man on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 10:19:56 AM PDT

    •  George Takei is one of my personal heroes (5+ / 0-)

      I grew up watching him on Star Trek (yes, I'm that old), and I've only had more reason to respect and admire him ever since.  He knows the rights of women and the rights of GLBT people are closely intertwined, and he probably figured this out long before I, an old-school feminist from the time I was an adolescent in the 1970s, did.

      A great American.  Just say Takei!

  •  It seems to me, that as the HL ruling (17+ / 0-)

    is based on the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and not the Constitution, the simplest way to undo it, is to repeal or change the RFRA.
    Maybe not too simple to do, with the Congress we currently have, but working to elect more and better Democrats to congress would be the best way to change this awful ruling.

    Severely Socialist 47283

    by ichibon on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 10:23:19 AM PDT

  •  But SCOTUS has Affirmed that Gawd Exists (7+ / 0-)

    Therefore, whatever Man thinks Gawd wants is therefore the law. Cause Gawd can't speak for himself since he's all invisible and shit.

    I just hope the f**king catholics don't move to outlaw masturbation -- they could ya know. ;-)

    No longer Hoping for Change. Now Praying for a Miracle.

    by CitizenOfEarth on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 10:28:18 AM PDT

  •  Corporation=Person, Blystocyst=Person, Woman=Meh! (12+ / 0-)

    Good one!

    If you don't like it, attack the message, not the messenger. The former may convince me that I am wrong, but the latter will always convince that I am right.

    by nancyjones on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 10:47:04 AM PDT

  •  Woman = nobody would be better, I think. (4+ / 0-)

    Woman = meh would be read as women = men, and that would cause confusion.

    I almost wish there was a Hobby Lobby near me so I could go engage in "sidewalk counseling" with its customers.

    © cai Visit to join the fight against global warming.

    by cai on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 10:52:05 AM PDT

  •  Thank you Vyan (4+ / 0-)

    It's a nice collection of thoughts that you've gathered in this diary on a topic that everyone seems to be talking about right now.  

    If I can attempt to add one more:

    It is my belief that many men are behind a woman's decision to have an abortion - namely, she got pregnant, he doesn't want to be a daddy, so he forces her to end the pregnancy.

    If I am correct, I find it ironic that a certain set of men will insist on abortion if the woman becomes pregnant, yet have also taken away birth control as an option.

    In addition to the boycott's proposed by Mr Takei, the other logical boycott is for women in relationship's with such "men" to boycott having sex with them.  Let the 5 old men chew on that.

    If a small minority of people is now stealthily ruling what was previously a democratic country, and "the people" don't seem to realize it, should anyone bother to tell them?

    by Older and Wiser Now on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 11:07:07 AM PDT

  •  That's CAPTAIN Sulu (8+ / 0-)

    to you... ;-)

    I see you drivin' 'round town with the girl I love / And I'm like / Please proceed, Governor. - Dave Itzkoff

    by Jensequitur on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 11:07:15 AM PDT

  •  They just want to destroy the people end of (7+ / 0-)

    government and ensure that government serves property.

    It can't get much more naked than what's going on over the last 15 years or so. It's been 1 non-stop raid on the Constitution.

    The SCOTUS is, quite purposefully, I believe, letting the genie out of the bottle to pave the way for corporate colonialism as the global hegemony of the future.

    It's really pretty radical - even Revolutionary.

    Perhaps we are ground zero witnesses to the Corporate Revolution, or whatever historical moniker it gets in the future.

    Thinking about it, it's probably a good idea to start talking about the Corporate Revolution, seeing as how it's been happening for the last 45 years or so.

    It's not at all hard to see how this precedent leads to a terrible future for humanity.

    Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

    by k9disc on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 11:17:05 AM PDT

  •  Here (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    white blitz, thanatokephaloides

    Even assuming that the Courts would back up a Muslim corporation in the exact same way they backed up Hobby Lobby - it's still not fair.  Hobby Lobby can do this because it has enough supporters to muddle through.  With the Court out of the way, its religious rights will be effected through the market.  Our boycott won't be big enough.

    Minority religious groups - in this case and also under that awful Arizona law - might get a legal pass to do whatever, but they'll be run out of business a hundred times faster.

    •  I do fear our boycott won't be big enough (4+ / 0-)

      There are the Palin ilk who will make a show of support for Hobby Lobby. That's why at our local HL opening, I plan to counsel the good Christian customers about what happens to Christians in China. They are thrown in jail for praying. It's not JUST the forced abortions and sterilizations that show me HL is insincere in their actions.

      •  Unfortunately, lots of women (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Don't follow the news.  Men too, I guess, but women more so.  I have intelligent friends, but some completely opt out of reading or listening to news.  They say it is to preserve their mental health.

        All Green. All Wet.

        by Andy Cook on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 08:31:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Let them dump their cash into HL (0+ / 0-)

        Art Supplies are expensive. Period. Tubes of paint, canvases, frames, fixatives, all of it. Even if a nominally wealthy person wanted to, spending their money to make up for two lost serious art supply customers can get very expensive.

        It's easy to spend 50 or a 100 dollars when buying supplies. Super Easy. And I know those cheapskates, they will try and buy mostly cheap shit, because that's how they are, and they will nickle and dime HL to death with small purchases.

        "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

        by GreenMother on Fri Jul 04, 2014 at 06:24:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with you (4+ / 0-)
    Yes, that's right women who suffer from polycystic ovarian syndrome, are at a risk of ovarian cancer, Endomitriosis and heavy menstral bleeding don't need a pill, or a shot, or a patch or an IUD to help with that.  Or so the Wingnuts continue to believe.  
    While this is true, I don't feel any compulsion to apologize for birth control.  Health care includes sexual health care.  I don't need to couch it in any fatal diseases.  For all these BS "no health care for recreational activities!" arguments, it's not like anyone thinks that health insurance shouldn't cover heatstroke treatment.  You don't hear "Don't make me pay for your playing outside!"
      •  Auto and motorcycle ins cos already--- (0+ / 0-)

        Esp motorcycle ins cos generaly REFUSE to pay for accidents--while ON THE MOTORCYCLE.  


        I got tossed OFF and had some small med bills and my DOCTORS office REFUSED to submit it to my Ins co.  Fortunately ALLSTATE is the ONLY one who WILL pay for these things.

        So consider very carefully WHO will pay IF you go outside and get hurt playing football on your lawn;  riding your OWN horse;  your kid rides their bile---

        Because the NEXT thing might be restricting THESE sorts of "recreational' activities.  

    •  But the non-sex related (4+ / 0-)

      uses of hormones, etc. need to be stated and restated.  It is common.  In fact, the only birth control pills I took were actually meant to, eventually, lead to me getting pregnant.  I took 2 BC pills/day for 100 days in hopes of quieting down endometriosis by shutting off my own hormone production for awhile.  Also it was supposed to help the pain I had that went up to my hip, wrapped around to my back, and caused major back spasms.  It was no picnic.  Finally had the endometriosis burned off during surgery.  Cured!

      All Green. All Wet.

      by Andy Cook on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 08:36:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  My mother thought the pill was the best invention (3+ / 0-)

        in the world for that reason. She had desperately been trying to get pregnant but just couldn't seem to. Then her doctor put her on the pill for a few months. Then when he had her stop taking them, no problem getting pregnant.

        So on a very personal note, I would not be here without my mom's access to "the pill".  Also I might very well have died without MY access to the pill. I have a genetic bleeding disorder that is usually mild. I have had some severe episodes, but a great doctor who gave me sample pills "just in case". I happened to be traveling in a horribly red area when the worst happened. Thank goodness I had my pills with me because fundie pharmacists can invoke conscience clauses.  A relative lost 1/2 gallon of blood in a similar manner. It is terrifying that these jerks want to deprive me of my right to life over some theoretical blastocyst.

        I think limiting women's access to birth control over this "sincerely" held belief is like limiting access to OTC drugs because they "could" be used to commit suicide.

        •  Good comparison (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          although that is the same argument, backwards, for gun ownership.

          All Green. All Wet.

          by Andy Cook on Fri Jul 04, 2014 at 04:06:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Wait,wait, WAIT! (0+ / 0-)

           Are you saying that your mother engaged in what conservatives consider sinful behavior and was blessed with child?!
            Well then, I guess their bibles must read, "the wages of sin is...LIFE!"

          "In some sort of crude sense, which no vulgarity, no humor, no overstatement can quite extinguish, the physicists have known sin, and this is a knowledge which they cannot lose."
                                     --J Robert Oppenheimer

  •  Gay Couples? How about blacks? (2+ / 0-)

    "It's no measure of health being well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"

    by buckshot face on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 11:29:47 AM PDT

  •  Holy shit, look at the top image on Obama's FB (8+ / 0-)

    (IIRC, page is run by the remains of his campaign organization.)

    "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

    by nosleep4u on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 11:35:26 AM PDT

  •  Hobby Lobby and sidewalk counseling.. (4+ / 0-)

    yep... two decisions that go together like peanut butter and jelly.

    Wonder when the right is going to start thinking abut that old adage..

    "be careful what you ask for"

  •  I'm not a graphic artist, (4+ / 0-)

    but it would be quite nice if someone came up with a decal that businesses could post informing the public at large that the business does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, age, sex, pregnancy, citizenship, disability, or sexual orientation. Then I would know what businesses to patronize and if I was lured into a discriminating business because they posted such a decal, I could sue them for fraud in the inducement.

    Just a thought.

    I need to complete my set. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the white album on a wax cylinder?

    by gilacliff on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 12:08:47 PM PDT

  •  Rush Limbaugh has had FOUR WIVES (6+ / 0-)


    Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. uid 52583 lol

    by terrypinder on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 12:10:45 PM PDT

  •  for all the hue and cry from nutters... (7+ / 0-)

    ...concerned about Sharia law and some states even passing laws to ban it, they can thank the conservative Supreme Court for opening that door to the possibility.

    I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

    by blue drop on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 12:15:25 PM PDT

  •  They recognize the threat to women's lives. (8+ / 0-)
    [It does always amaze me that so many of these "Right-to-Lifers" repeatedly fail to recognize that without access to effective healthcare - regardless of cost - some of us post-embryonic-Americans Will. Not. Live.]
  •  Islam? How about Scientology? (7+ / 0-)

    Does anyone else remember a software company called Ashton-Tate? if you need a reference.

    There are some very strange and dangerous implications to allowing a corporation to enforce religious dogma on their employees.

  •  religion can be any damn thing. (11+ / 0-)

    Since it's based on "faith" and "beliefs" and not anything provable, religion can cover anything.

    I can come up with some bullshit that I think the universe is created by the mud-puddle-farts of a giant purple woodchuck named Skwizzy.  Skwizzy doesn't like for people to save money -- He thinks it's a sign of faith in The Great Provider (his son, Yaaarrrrrrrrrrghahagah-The-Almost-Unpronouncible) to spend all your money as fast as you get it, and to save money is a sign of lack of faith, great disrespect, and - indeed - blasphemy.

    All I have to do is find a few other people to believe in Skwizzy (or at least say they do, which is all pretty much 75% of Christians are doing, anyway, which is easily provable by their behavior as every day they do things in front of their All-Knowing All-Seeing Lord Who Can Condemn Them To Eternal Hellfire that they'd never do in front of a cop who could give them a ticket - they don't believe that silliness any more than I do, they just want people to hang out with a couple times a week) and we form a business....

    ....aaaaaaannnnnd we don't have to contribute to anyone's 401K or retirement plans or health care or any of that stuff.  Because, y'know, affront to Yaaarrrrrrrrrrghahagah-The-Almost-Unpronouncible.

    And who'd be offensive enough to not "respect my beliefs," which is what we're supposed (hell, pretty much required by law) to do for every religion, no matter how ridiculous, insane, childish, or ass-stupid it may be?  

    Expect new religions to be springing up all over the place as employers try to find ways around doing anything inconvenient to them.   It was a slippery slope already and the Supreme Court idiots just googed a couple truckloads of Astroglide all over it.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 01:00:09 PM PDT

  •  I have an idea! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    white blitz, cai, thanatokephaloides

    Warren/Takei 2016.

    How many followers does Takei have on facebook? Probably 5 million? That could swing an election, right?

    We are all students and teachers. I often ask myself: "What did I come here to learn, and what did I come to teach?"

    by nerafinator on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 01:04:54 PM PDT

  •  And from a different political angle (4+ / 0-)

    How Christian Fundamentalism in America tends to Mirror Sharia Law in Islamic Extremism - May 2014

    Or this:
    Sharia Law- already being formulated in the USA- known as Dominionism.

    And this:

    Dominion Theology or Dominionism is the idea that Christians should work toward eithera nation governed by Christians or one governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law.
    Also since republicans are so anamored with hteir latest new word "imperialism":
    Christian Imperialism & Republican politics
    Pulitzer Prize winning author and journalist Chris Hedges warns us in his 2006 book, American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America, of the growing fascistic threat.

    Fundamentalist Christians such as Pat Robertson and numerous other televangelists have stated their goal “was to use the United States to create a global Christian empire … [by] taking control of all institutions, including mainstream denominations and the government.”

    The central fascistic, political ideology of the Christian Right is Dominionism. According to the first chapter of Genesis, God, after creating human beings, gave humans dominion over the earth. Dominionism, taking scripture to be a literal and inerrant expression of God, believes the law of God as codified in the Bible should take precedence over all secular law and should be the governing source for society.

    The Dominionist movement has taken control of much of Republican politics and, significantly, the Republican presidential race. Except for Mitt Romney, the other two leading contenders, Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann, are Christian Right candidates with Dominionist connections.

    Kos was correct; the republicans are the American Taliban
  •  Maybe we shouldn't cover alcohol related illnes... (6+ / 0-)

    Maybe we shouldn't cover alcohol related illnesses or accidents either. I'm an atheist but I just don't approve of drinking and driving.

    Thankfully, no Christian would ever dare drink and drive. Right?

  •  Somebody's got to ask Mr. Erickson (9+ / 0-)

    exactly what is wrong with "consequence free sex"? Why does sex have to have "consequences"?

    •  My opinion? Because people like this were (3+ / 0-)

      made to be embarrassed and ashamed of their natural sexuality as little children. Probably humiliated and likely even punished.
      At the same time they can't deny their own and other people's sexual feelings, but can't bear the idea that other people's impulses shouldn't be policed, too.
      So they project their own guilt and humiliation onto others.
      That's the only way I can explain Rick Santorum, for example. Someone did a super job of frightening and humiliating him when he was little, I'll bet.

      •  While I would love to see all aggressive anti-gay (3+ / 0-)

        politicians outed as secretly gay, I don't think that's Santorum's deal. I bet he or one or more of his friends were sexually abused in the Catholic church. I think childhood sexual abuse confuses pedophilia with homosexuality.

        •  I don't think Santorum is gay, either (2+ / 0-)

          I think it's more likely that someone shamed/punished him so severely for showing an interest in sex that any kind of sexual recreation--gay or straight-- is a very threatening idea for him.
          Although the sexual abuse is a possibility, too. I imagine it would produce much the same effect as being shamed or punished for sexual activity or interest as a child.

    •  Shame. (2+ / 0-)

      It's a Puritan thang.

      (Actually, shaming ain't a thang at all. The concept of shaming has always been an extremely effective money making device.  It's certainly been a faith-based growth industry since the 16th century, despite the minor social speed bumps now and again.)

  •  Forget Sharia law. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anika, thanatokephaloides

    If a Muslim-owned corporation had brought the same case as Hobby Lobby except citing Islam rather than Christianity, would the Justices have ruled the same way?

    Corporations, which should be the carefully restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people’s masters. -- President Grover Cleveland, 1888

    by edg on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 03:34:39 PM PDT

    •  No. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      If a Muslim-owned corporation had brought the same case as Hobby Lobby except citing Islam rather than Christianity, would the Justices have ruled the same way?

      "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." -- Sen Carl Schurz 1872

      by Calamity Jean on Fri Jul 04, 2014 at 11:10:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wait until the Amish get at it (4+ / 0-)

    Non-pasteurized milk for everyone!!!

    The Republicans are crazy, but why we follow them down the rabbit hole is beyond me.

    by Jazzenterprises on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 03:38:29 PM PDT

  •  Buycott has a campaign to boycott (5+ / 0-)

    Hobby Lobby and others in the law suit that sparked this ridiculous ruling already up.  Buycott, for those of you who don't know about it, is a smartphone app that uses your camera phone to read UPC labels for company origin.  It lets you join a campaign to boycott listed firms, and when the UPC code indicates it is on the list of boycotted firms, then you can easily enforce your conscientious decision not to support their style of business.  I use it all the time.  Highly recommended for people of conscience.  Uses your money to reward or punish capitalist firms in the way they respond to best--the effect on their bottom lines.  Fewer than 400 have signed up, so please look up the Buycott app (note spelling) and send Hobby Lobby and all those other ignorant bigots a message.

    Republicans claim "tax cuts pay for themselves" but unemployment insurance, food stamps, student loans, road repair, disaster aid, must be offset with spending cuts. Who benefits most from tax cuts? The Ultra-rich. Who loses? You.

    by monkeybrainpolitics on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 04:25:32 PM PDT

  •  I eagerly await the day when Muslim and (2+ / 0-)

    Jewish privately held companies demand that all male employees be circumcised.

    And I am Kilrain of the 20th Maine. And I damn all gentlemen. Whose only worth is their father's name And the sweat of a workin' man Steve Earle - Dixieland

    by shigeru on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 05:25:33 PM PDT

  •  The Hobby Lobby decision enables the creation... (9+ / 0-)

    ...of private mini-theocracies.  To the degree that corporations are "people" and money runs the political system, this is removes bricks in the wall that separates church and state.

     photo ab3dc51e-de96-4c3f-90e1-83cbfb466e3d_zps2824b082.jpg

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 06:05:44 PM PDT

    •  Thats been the goal all along if you listen to the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      reich wing chatter. It started with the complaining about Activist Judges in the Bush Admn and went down hill from there.

      "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

      by GreenMother on Fri Jul 04, 2014 at 06:30:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  phasers (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jayden, OldDragon, Calamity Jean

    I was unaware, until reading this Diary, that Sulu could set his phasers to ridicule and hammer and vaporize and annihilate -- all at the same time!

    Tipped and recced.

    George should be proud to be Takei. Ceiling Cat only knows I'm proud to call him a countryman and a member of my biological species.


    "It's high time (and then some) that we put an end to the exceptionalistic nonsense floating around in our culture and face the fact that either the economy works for all, or it doesn't work AT all." -- Sean McCullough (DailyKos user thanatokephaloides)

    by thanatokephaloides on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 09:59:31 PM PDT

  •  Coincidentally, the new documentary on George (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides, jayden, Vyan

    Takei's remarkable life and ongoing activism premieres today on DirecTV!

  •  Lets flip the script. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    Suppose a huge food retailer decides that they are a closely held corp. and they have a sincerely religious objection to GMO food. Could this give Monsanto the vapors?

    A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

    by onionjim on Fri Jul 04, 2014 at 05:38:56 AM PDT

  •  I love you George Takei--thank you! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BobX, OldDragon, Calamity Jean

    and yes, already boycotting Hobby Lobby, Chick Filet, and any other place that discriminates against GLBT, or Women for any reason.

    "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

    by GreenMother on Fri Jul 04, 2014 at 05:51:40 AM PDT

  •  Thank you Vyan for standing up against this. (0+ / 0-)

    Thank you so very much.

    "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

    by GreenMother on Fri Jul 04, 2014 at 05:52:26 AM PDT

  •  This will never stop until we become 1740 England (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean
  •  recreational behavior.......? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon, Calamity Jean

    ".....forced to provide something that is largely for recreational behavior...."  

    by that logic, if you break your leg rollerskating, your insurance should not have to cover it.....

  •  So if I believe (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    based on my religion (Flyingspaghettimonsterism in case you were wondering) that Christians are evil because they keep doing this kind of crap and I want to discriminate against hiring them based on my religious belief, does that mean that I can ask job applicants whether or not they are Christians?

    Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

    by democracy inaction on Fri Jul 04, 2014 at 02:27:43 PM PDT

  •  I think we have all know for some time now (3+ / 0-)

    The Roberts Court will be known as The Supreme Court of Corporate America.

    I feel for those Justices who work for our freedom but will forever be recognized with this court.

  •  Don 't Forget About the Wheaton Case (3+ / 0-)

    In Wheaton, three days after Hobby Lobby, the Court said that requiring a religious college to fill out application forms to get exemptions was a violation of the college's religious freedom. I think this is a sleeper case that's going to haunt the country in the future, and may be even more important than Hobby Lobby.

  •  Hobby Lobby (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    Satan is alive and kicking at Hobby Lobby. And the conservative members of the Supreme Court are stepping out of their closets to support the Red Devil.

  •  Hey Rush. Why don't you STFU (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    So here's what Rush had to say, "Yet they wouldn't have the problem if they didn't do a certain thing. It's that simple." Is that certain thing he's referring to, uh, SEX? Does this buffoon ever stop to think about what he's saying? If there is no sex for women does that mean there is no sex for men? I can tell you it's a helluva lot easier for women to do without than it is for men. There will be an awful lot of men taking things into their own hands, and you know what I mean. And, I'm talking about married couples. God, I hate these fuckers.
    No one ever stops to think either that there are a lot of medical reasons for prescribing birth control. Women suffering is one. Extremely painful periods, or dysmenorrhea. There are also women who have extraordinarily heavy periods where they lose a lot of blood resulting in anemia. The list goes on. Would these morons have this needless suffering because it's against someone's religion? Oh wait. Yes, they would. They HATE women. I almost forgot. That's what this is about. The hatred and subjugation of women Where do I sign up to persecute these right wing extremist, fundamentalist retards? I want to know now. Oh, and all you people who vote for hard right crazy asses? You're as bad as they are and it makes you evil.

    •  Ummmmm---- (0+ / 0-)

      Thanks for the "enlightened" view of WHO can do "without" sex "easier" than who.

      For the record--unless you have by some MIRACLE actually BEEN both a MAN and a WOMAN--you don't GET to say these things and be taken seriously.  

      And NO being a tranny does NOT count for this argument.

      Altho I understand where you are "coming from"  this is an outdated and old fashioned notion that does us no good NOW and in fact perpetuates old stereotypes.  

      This is EXACTLY the same old same old that is being used to beat women up--If you DON'T have SEX there will not be any consequences hence no NEED for any of these drugs.  IF you DO have SEX---and esp if you DARE to enjoy it-----you DESERVE the consequences and that is up to and including your DEATH you slut.  

      However the MAN that knocked you up put you up the spout put a bun in that oven ---now HE is doing GODS Holy Work and nothing and no one had better try and STOP him even if he CAN'T get it up.

      We have PILLS for that.  

  •  No More Civil Rights (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The way the Supreme Court 5 are going, I am predicting a return to segregation & the way things were prior to President Johnson signing the Civil Rights laws, only worse. Businesses will feel free to discriminate against anyone because of their gender, skin color, religion, sexual orientation, etc. They will say that it's against their religion to serve/hire/provide health insurance, etc for Women/Blacks/Muslims/LBTG people/Hispanics/Undocumented Immigrants, or anyone they happen to take a disliking to.

    These people need to read the inscription on the base of the Statue of Liberty & remember that their ancestors were illegal immigrants.

    Thomas Jefferson said, "Every generation needs a new revolution." and “The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.”

    It's time we had another revolution. There are elections coming up in November. Let your polling place be your battlefield & your ballot be your weapon. I know we can't vote the Supreme Court out of office (it would be nice in this case) but we can vote people out who think like they do. If we don't vote & start getting rid of these & like minded people, things will only get worse.

    •  No More Civil Rights (4+ / 0-)

      By way of introduction, I am new to the Daily Kos, and I am retired, a father, a W.A.S.P., and I live in the reddest state in the nation.
      I have two genius sons, and a genius transgender daughter.  (And no, I'm not exaggerating out of a father's pride - this is verifiable.)

      All humans on this continent need to remember that we are ALL immigrants, in the last 15,000 years or so.  Yes, even the "Native Americans".  And the Europeans didn't ask permission from the native peoples on this continent before moving in and taking over, mostly by force, their lands in the last 600 years.  The idea that we somehow have a "right" to keep other peoples out, is ludicrous in the extreme.

      The recent wave of illegal immigrants (CHILDREN, f'r God's sake!) that has raised such a storm of controversy (??!!) is the exact subject of those beautiful words inscribed on Lady Liberty:  "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."  What have we forgotten since those words were inscribed?

      The state of this nation is rapidly getting to the point of making me want to find a cave somewhere high on a mountain, and just "fort up" for the duration.

      My generation had a couple of revolutions, back in the '60s and early '70s.  It's high time the current generation got off their backsides and had another one. How about another Civil Rights "Movement" (Revolution)?  Or maybe one to write a new Constitution, since the one written so long ago is being so sadly misused/misinterpreted?

      Kudos to all those calling for folks to get out and vote.  Even in these August (in my state) primaries.  It's important that the sane people make their voices heard at every opportunity.  And Captain Sulu:  Well Done, sir! Well Done!

      "The Tree of Liberty must be watered occasionally with the blood of patriots"

  •  The current SCCOTUS, (3+ / 0-)

    Supreme Corporate Court of the United States, is the worst in U.S. history, bar none.  We are in great need of a mechanism by which we can dissolve any current court which is running amuck, or at the very least a far easier mechanism to remove specific justices.

    "Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions, for safety on the streets, for child care, for social welfare, for rape crisis centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law. If someone says, "Oh, I'm not a feminist." I ask, "Why? What's your problem?" - Dale Spender

  •  Mr Limbaugh and his hypocrisy--which is so comm... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    Mr Limbaugh and his hypocrisy--which is so common amongst the right wing men, says that "they wouldn't have the problem if they didn't do a certain thing. It's that simple".

    Oh--you mean "open their legs" when some man begs them to do it, but he doesn't have to either take preventative measures--or suffer the consequences--when she does it--that thing that "he" wants "her" to do--to satisfy his pleasures??

  •  Having lived in Utah/Idaho... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    previously...this is just going to allow for-profit businesses to more overtly discriminate about anyone who doesn't enrich the largest corporation in the US in Salt Lake City. Just beware of leading questions about your tithe...stake or ward when you apply for that job in either of these states. There's all ready too many horror stories of discrimination in jobs. Moral of the too will hear how being non-LDS will create a disruption if you're hired.

    Outside of these're going to see more "religious" based discrimination...especially in the Bible Noose.

    •  If you object to these practices--- (0+ / 0-)

      Then you NEED to look into the animation industry---think--DISNEY and PIXAR etc---as those are for some odd reason almost exclusively staffed by LDS believers.  

      There was an article--NYT???---fairly recently about this.

      And it's not that they are LDS (so much)  that bothers me--it is that their Church is OK with this---the whole Disney Fantasy world!  

      But--wait---the whole DISNEY FANTASY WORLD is about Princess now isn't it----overly exagerated pretty-in-pink "women" who have "power" handed to them by birthright

      Ummmm---mebbe I had better re-think THAT part of it---

  •  Where was the due diligence on the part of the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    opposition's representation at the SCOTUS?
    Why didn't THEY raise the very valid issue of HL's investments and sources?

    It's bad enough to have a corrupt and politicized SCOTUS, but do we have to settle for incompetence as well?

  •  Those five pigs... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    in our SCOTUS should be impeached for this alone.

    If you like bicycles, check out the newest and coolest products at my site, "" You can also find my products at e-Bay under the name, "Ziggyboy." See all the products on my "See seller's other items" link.

    by JohnnieZ on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 11:43:46 AM PDT

  •  Oh, no you didn't!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The in-laws are bat-shite enough about Sharia law in the US and the UN taking over the country, now this?!

    And, after suffering through this SCOTUS era, stacked with religious bigots of the orthodox/brain-dead kind, it's not hard to see how ole Chief Justice Taney managed to overlook Dred Scot's being a human.

    Of course, I should have known.  Got several 'legal minds' in the family, and only latterly have realized how much the emptying out the brain of Reality and replacing it with Legality was never fully developed as a cautionary tale in the past decade of lawyer-based tv shows.

    If the other professions were screwups like lawyers, we'd all be dead.  The fact the SCOTUS and other courts continually overturn laws written by lawyers is sad comment...

  •  To hell with Hobby Lobby (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    and to hell with the supreme court and to hell with all fundamentalists of all religions!  For one, those people don't even have a real church (or religion).  It's american make-believe.  So let them have their way for now.  The pitch forks will come out and the guillotines will be busy once again.  I envision them lined up on the mall in washington and the entire 'government' of the united mistakes in queue waiting to lose their empty heads.

    Remember this:  Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.  -Abraham Lincoln.

  •  Court Lobbied to Retreat as a Hobby (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    This is an example where male, testosterone dominated, herd behavior caused a acute regression backwards to Cro-magnon mentality; such a short-circuit of normal intellectual processes demonstrates succinctly, a dumb intelligence!

  •  Women should just boycott sex with Republicans. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  And given the degree this Court leans to the Right (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    "That Hobby Lobby would ask the Supreme Court to grant them a 35 Foot Buffer Zone?"
    they just might get it.

    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." -- Neil DeGrasse Tyson"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -- Aldous Huxley

    by ThePhlebob on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 12:15:55 PM PDT

  •  I once sat next to Mister Takei at a Mike Woo f... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I once sat next to Mister Takei at a Mike Woo for L.A . City Council money raiser, Staged at the Hollywood Paladium, We were at

    the main table. Sulu was there solo. I was coming out and in a bad strait marriage. In other words, I should have left the affair with George, oh my! Thanks George for all you and your fella do.

  •  4 of 20 Contraceptives (0+ / 0-)

    If I have the facts correct, isn't Hobby Lobby now not responsible for coverage for 4 "abortive" contraceptives but still has to pay for the other 16 which are not abortive.  I don't quite make the logical connection between this and Sharia law.  

    •  This is---- (0+ / 0-)

      This is NOT about whether or not HL has to pay for these drugs.  It IS about WHO has control over woman's bodies and futures.

      HL was paying for ALL of these drugs before the ACA and some law firm decided to run this up the flag as a TEST CASE for removing womens rights.  

      Just like the Saudis and the Taliban deciding that women are below the pig in their worldview.  They want NO woman to be having SEX---except for the times when THEY deem it RIGHT for her to "procreate".  Otherwise she had BETTER keep her damn legs CROSSED--and if some man overpowers her and gets those knees UNCROSSED by force---well she ASKED FOR IT and should be STONED.  And while you are at it--don't let them DRIVE they might drive AWAY.  Don't let them uncover their HAIR because some MAN might become--inflamed---at the display.  Don't let them have any control over how their CHILDREN are raised--the ones you FORCED them to bear.  

      HL is a hypocrisy----they have millions of dollars INVESTED in the companies that MAKE THESE DRUGS that they will DENY to their employees---even if these are PROVEN to NOT cause abortions.  Even if the employee NEEDS them to LIVE.

      Women are an expendable commodity to these sorts---like bus'es ===if you miss one another will be along presently.  

  •  Just Say No to Hobby Lobby (0+ / 0-)

  •  hobby lobby: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    I am totally disgusted by this current Supreme Court - they are so obvious in their partisanship that it screams out - how can they be so immoral and uncaring of what their decrees are setting up AND so lacking in professionalism that they are going down in history as the SC that has completely lost the confidence of the people - I used to be very admiring of the SC but not now - the ones that signed this latest decree should be thrown off the bench  !!!   Isn't there some way to do that ???????????

  •  Vyan on Hobby Lobby (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Vyan, allow me to say I completely agree with your evaluation of the Hobby Lobby decision and George Takei's recent post.  That being said I must plead with you to be as vigilant correcting your own typos and misspellings as you are with pointing out the fallacies of other people's arguments.  The typos lessen your credibility and you have voice that needs to be heard.  Thanks.

  •  Is there any better argument for single payer. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Businesses are not good places to entrust the protection of your rights.  This is not about religion , it is about the bottom line....having to provide contraception  would increase their costs, that is typically how corporations think.  What do you want to bet Hobby Lobby has almost NO maternity leave and finds subtle ways to fire pregnant woman.  You just can't make this stuff up.

  •  Hobby Lobby Illogic (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    The thing that is so despicable about this decision by the conservatives of the Supreme Court is that the reasoning is so flawed, the logic so poor, and the understanding of the intent of the constitution so mis-construed that one can't even respect the intelligence of the men who made this decision.

    Reasoning is important and the ability to actually apply logic, gage the consequences, and see the implications for society as a whole in relation to Constitutional principles is paramount.

    Here we have justices making judgments that we might expect from a jr. high school student or a know nothing tea partier or FOX news watcher but not from men who have advanced degrees and years of jurisprudence under their belt.

    What I fear most is that the intelligensia of our country are no longer capable of deep reasoning.  It's scary.

    Laissez le bon temps rouler!!

    by Pacific Blue on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:21:41 PM PDT

  •  Why are conservatives against homosexuals ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ... if they're against abortions?

    As George Carlin pointed out, homosexuals have fewer abortions than heterosexuals, so why isn't the Religious "Right" welcoming them with open arms?

    (BTW, Re: Takei's comment ... I could SWEAR I said the same thing a few days ago ...)

  •  I wish they actually knew the subject .. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    Birth control isn't just for free sex with no consequences.  If it were I don't see the difference between that and ED meds or aids or other things exclusively for men, which I notice they cover.

    It's also being responsible, which I thought they were all for (unless it relates to investing or following the pesky Bible and the love they neighbor and so forth), but for medical conditions, and sometimes a woman really shouldn't be pregnant for medical reasons, which condoms just don't assure.  Nice job, Supreme Court guys.  NEVER NEVER say "activist judges" ever again to me, fellas.  

    I want to know why the women (you know, the ones who might actually understand this topic a bit) were just shut and and the old men got to get their control and religion in there?  How does that make sense.  This was never about abortion or birth control.  It's about religion and controlling those loose women. This will grow until we end up with people with no insurance again and then I guess they will be happy.  This was NOT meant to be a theocracy.  They don't get that this can get nasty for anyone...atheists could decide that all employees should be prohibited from any religious holiday, Muslims could require their prayer rules (yes, it is the same.  Your religion says no abortion or birth control and I can't get the kind I need without my insurance paying for it, and you prohibit that, why am I being forced to follow your religious dogma?) for employees, and the list goes on.  If I don't believe that more than one child should be born to any couple because my religion says the Earth is overpopulated, why why should I be forced to pay for your children's insurance after the first one?

    That doesn't even get into the denying service issue.  If my religion says I can't support racists and bigots, or maybe those who have been married more than once or use birth control, wear cotton, eat meat, or whatever, not only can I forbid any employees to have any medicines that were tested on animals, that come from animals, or maybe not wear leather to work...this is just crazy!  Will we be filling out forms before we shop or eat anywhere to make sure we fit the owners' allowed profile of customer?

    And when people are interviewed for jobs will they be allowed to ask your religion, if you are gay, do you use birth control or have you had an abortion, do you have gay kids you love, do you go to the right church, etc.?  Where did minding our own business go?  I don't care what anyone chooses in the bedroom or to eat or believe if you aren't hurting anyone, so how did we get here where a few old men (for the most part) are being allowed to force their religious beliefs on a whole country?  

  •  Two things, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    First, I'd love to watch the Supreme Court fall all over themselves explaining why a Muslim company doesn't enjoy the same protections as a Christian one under the Constitution.

    Second, It's apparent that one of the fundamental differences between a conservative and a liberal is that one thinks sex is a dirty utilitarian function and the other thinks it is a beautiful manifestation of love. It's going to be difficult to find common ground on this one.

  •  George Takei Speaks for Me! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    Thank you, George. You have said it as plainly as possible and told the Supreme Court what it should have considered. Now I know for sure that the Supreme Court (except for the female members) are bought and paid for by Big Corporations. They are supposed to interpret the Constitution not re-write it. We, individual people, are the only ones that make changes to the Constitution. We (LGBT, religious groups, and people of color) need to join together and protect our human rights.

  •  Hobby Lobby/Sharia law article (3+ / 0-)

    We are going back to the dark ages in respect to people's health.  We want women to be responsible and yet take away birth control and even knowledge of birth control. We force unwanted pregnancies and then don't help out in any way with Welfare, and SNAP. The conservatives would also do away with minimum wage, and want to take away Obamacare, and in some states didn't expand Medicaid for the poor.  Last time I checked, babies came from sex between a man and woman, but only the woman is left with responsibilities. Birth control is used for other gynecological problems as well. There is no Republican on the face of this
    earth that I would vote for. The Supreme Court men ruled by their ideologies, not law and common sense.

  •  My reply to Erick Erickson and his unbelievably (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    stupid Tweet - Viagra, Cialas, and all the other 30 or so drugs that help men get big hardons after they become ED sufferers, also afford "consequence-free" sex to the male half of the human species. But I guess you think this is all very fair and completely ok, don't you?

  •  It happened in the UK (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    British courts are recognizing and judging cases according to Shria law where Shria law is requested.  I view this as the thin edge of the wedge to introducing Shria law to be the main judical law.

    This is the reason that I could never return to my native land.

  •  I'd like to see Limbaugh's wife (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    not do a certain thing and let's see how the ol' Rush would respond to that.

    It drives me crazy that these fundamentalists ALWAYS seem to have their noses in other people's bedrooms, private and personal lives, personal and private places and any other place they can stick it. Yet, if anyone puts them under the microscope in their personal lives, they are up and screaming.

    The hypocrisy of the never ending stream of stuff coming out of the Right is gobsmacking.

    •  He wouldn't care.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      He'd just grab his little bottle of blue pills again and head off for another vaca spot known for sex trafficking. He's probably bored with the Dominican Republic. I bet his favorite girls are getting too old for him. They're probably teenagers now.

    •  So which one do you want? (0+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      Hidden by:
      Old Sailor

      You complain that "fundamentalists" ALWAYS put their noses in other peoples bedrooms yet you seem to be arguing that employers should be in the bedroom providing contraceptives.  

      So which one do you want?  Employers in your bedroom providing contraceptives or not?

      The hypocrisy of the never ending stream of stuff coming out of the Left is gobsmacking.

      •  Don't know what your OP would say but--- (0+ / 0-)


        Wait for it---


        Let's take the "employer sponsored health insurance" OFF  the table--and let this be a SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM----and then this would be where it BELONGS--in the EXAM ROOM.

        NOT in the bedroom.  

        There.  I fixed it.  

  •  An idea (0+ / 0-)

    Maybe women should go on a sex strike.  No sex with any men until our rights are guaranteed.  

  •  I forgot to add..... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Hobby Lobby may win today, but when workers are in short supply and at a premium how many woman will go to work for them.  It's only during hard times that employers have the upper hand.  Remember that old saying: What goes around comes around.

  •  It's clear that 99% of the posters here haven't (0+ / 0-)

    read the decision.  Further, many of you clearly don't know the role the Supreme Court plays in the balance of powers and who passed the bill that informed the Hobby Lobby decision (and the 1871 Dictionary Act that defined "person"). Read people.

    Key issues for 99% of you to learn:

    1. In the context of Hobby Lobby was does "closely held" mean?
    2. Religious Freedom Restoration Act -- who sponsored it and who signed it.
    3. "certain contraceptives"
    4. "compelling interest"
    5. "least restrictive"

    Read the decision, or at least the syllabus.  Of course the actual facts of the judgement I'm sure won't sway most of you.

    Also, Hobby Lobby decision notwithstanding, women are completely free to buy their own contraceptives.

    •  How about a dissenter that DID read it... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Justice Ginsberg read it and was thoroughly appalled by it. And I think a justice would have a much better handle on it than you. The ones that voted in favor are some of the most blatant activist judges (you remember- the kind conservatives were always so worried about until they got their own) in the history of the court. The decision is on par with Citizens United. Corporations are NOT people. They are legal entities that are allowed to exist at the pleasure of the state, whose charters could be pulled at any time the state feels they are not longer serving in the public interest.  Oh, yeah. That's the old "quaint" view of it.

      •  The point is YOU clearly did not read it.... (0+ / 0-)

        Otherwise you would have said.  How you can claim an opinion on this subject having not read the, easily accessible, relevant material is a mystery to me.

        This decision was not a complex one, nor was it a surprise.

        Had you taken the time to read you would see that it's a very narrow decision that complies to the standards the RFRA requires. It allows for the governments "compelling interest" to be maintained while providing for the least restriction for the people who make up the closely-held corporation. It applies the same definition of what a "person" is according to how the law was passed.  The same definition of "person", as I stated before, has existed since 1871.

        •  Reading and understanding obviously different (0+ / 0-)

          No, I have not read the entire decision. And IF you have, it sure hasn't done you any good. You even accept the concept of corporate personhood, which was NOT defined by the court in 1871, but in a summary by the court reporter. It is completely idiotic, stupid, and freaking batguano ignorant to think corporations have the same rights as people. Corporations are chartered and exist at the blessing of the state and, and regardless of what Uncle Milty Friedman said, DO have some social responsibility by that charter. The state can revoke that charter any time it wants, and as far as I know it doesn't need to prove murder beyond any reasonable doubt to do it. But I'm sure you have read the law on corporate charters, so please point us to the law that shows I am wrong. What are the exact requirements for the state to revoke a corporate charter?

          So don't go spewing some Randian putrid filth in defense of the indefensible.

  •  Yes, it's happened with Muslims (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, No Tea, stitchingasfastasIcan

    It has happened with Muslims, and the courts in that case decided that taxi drivers could not impose their religious beliefs on their patrons...

    Freedom OF religion should also always mean freedom FROM religion.  One without the other is useless.

    If the taxi drivers don't want to carry passengers carrying alcohol then they shouldn't be taxi drivers.  They are free to do something else for a living and practice their religion as they please.

    If Hobby Lobby doesn't want to afford privileges to their employees as required by law, it shouldn't be in the business of employing people.  The company's owners are still free to practice their religion as they please, but they are not free to impose it upon others.  No one is.

  •  Religious Law (3+ / 0-)

    This (The Hobby lobby ruling) is less about sex than it is the overthrow of the US Constitution - that is this ruling dictates that there is a religious test to each and every law and that the religious test trumps the former Constitutional reading of the law.
    This is for every law in the United States. As Ginsburg has pointed out and as occurred on the day following this ruling the religious test is supreme.

    Get over it -  we now have the Theocratic United States - very similar to Iran, Iraq, Israel and other governments dominated by tests for religious beliefs.  

  •  So, when do we go back to burning women? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    IF we had a functioning Congress, they could over turn this totally wrong ruling and hold up our freedom FROM who ever's religion intruding in our lives, and discriminating against women.. There has to be a way to stop this criminal GOP and especially the GOP appointed Supreme court, or are we quickly returning to the dark ages? Worse, we're allowing it with not much protest.

  •  Simple solution: Women, just say NO (0+ / 0-)

    Rush Limbaugh explains everything: ""Pregnancy is something that you have to do to cause. ... Yet we treat it as a great imposition that women need to be protected from. It's a sickness, it's a disease, it's whatever, and there's gotta be a pill for it," he said on his show. "Yet they wouldn't have the problem if they didn't do a certain thing. It's that simple."  

    I might add that Rush wouldn't have had his little problem if he hadn't needed his own little pill.  Women who vote for these idiots against their own best interests deserve what they get but I don't see in the fine print of life where we have to be dragged along with their uninformed ignorance.    

  •  Your boss should not have a say in you healthcare? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snwflk, stitchingasfastasIcan

    How about, "your boss should have no part whatsoever in your healthcare". Why should my employer have to pay for my healthcare, or be involved in any way whatsoever?

    How about the modern, cost effective solution most modern countries have gone to - single payer health care. That would get rid of this religious exemption idiocy as well as lower costs and stop the medical industry from being an industry and and make it a profession again, where human health instead of profits is the bottom line.

  •  Finally! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I finally have the religious freedom to refuse service to people who wear clothing made of mixed fabrics.

  •  Church... (0+ / 0-)

    Thing that you are not realizing is that church is all about God and that the U.S.A. is all about religious freedom. Religious freedom means the right to practice a religion without interference from government just as much as the right not to practice a religion.
    A private company may be owned by people who observe and conduct their lives and business according to the tenets of their particular church and that is perfectly legal.
    Government has no right to force them to do otherwise.  
    In the case of Hobby Lobby, the owners object, on religious grounds, to abortion.  The company's insurance plan does pay for sixteen of the twenty-six methods of birth control but objects to and refuses to finance abortifacients since those methods and drugs kill an unborn child.
    That, my friends, is murder, plain and simple and murder is specifically prohibited by God, Who is, after all, the reason for church in the first place.
    Takei's rant is untoward, unseemly, and he has set back any LGBT "cause" by going off like he does.

    •  "murder is specifically prohibited by God" (0+ / 0-)

      but abortion, my friend, is NOT murder, plain and simple-

      -Exodus 21:22-24

        Your bible is a book, not a bludgeon. Read it.

      "In some sort of crude sense, which no vulgarity, no humor, no overstatement can quite extinguish, the physicists have known sin, and this is a knowledge which they cannot lose."

                           --J. Robert Oppenheimer

  •  Legal rulings based on False Premise (0+ / 0-)

    THE INCONVENIENT TRUTH: Although everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it is clear that you do not have a clue! This is a continuing remarkable example of rulings based upon a False Premise that of artificial legal entity (corporations are breathing people & a dollar is free speech) to create its own precedents! Maybe it is time to consider term limits This, just demonstrates Judge Robert's and his radical activist right wing gang’s arrogance and dangerous ruling "has ventured into a minefield." To undermine the health rights of Women with potential long range undermining implications! This Roberts Activist “Dupreme” Court must be publicly shamed and be embarrassed for their political activists’ game playing with our established LAWS! This Court continues to disregard the principle of “stare decisis” to no longer protect nor safe guard our individual constitutional rights as well as to destroy its historical creditability! As a result, all these Roberts activist temporary decisions in time will not stand and will be over turned! Maybe it is time to consider term limits! &

  •  Is there such a thing as beautiful, pure sex? (0+ / 0-)

    It's ALL ugly.

  •  The ONLY "religious freedom" (0+ / 0-)

    in the WORKPLACE is the FREEDOM FROM IT.

    There is NO DIFFERENCE between exemptions and exceptions based on religious beliefs and those based on racism.  BOTH are based on beliefs that have NO rational basis.  BOTH are based on beliefs that CANNOT be proven true.

    Religion and faith are private matters, and MAY NOT BE IMPOSED ON OTHERS;  THIS is precisely what the Founding Fathers intended.

  •  Before Monday, the Supreme Court has always rul... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Before Monday, the Supreme Court has always ruled that your right to observe, practice, follow and believe a religion ENDS where another individual's rights to practice and follow what THEY believe starts.

    In other words you could not IMPOSE your religious beliefs onto another person or discriminate against them based on what THEY choose to believe through your power as an employer.

    Now if you employ that person you CAN impose your beliefs by denying them whatever health related services you don't "believe" in...

    I hope this helps get Democrats and people from all parties who actually care about the women in their lives to show up and vote - this year and every year from now on.

  •  Much or SCOTUS was biased and should have recused (0+ / 0-)

    If you get you bread and butter from religious zealots, how can you be relied upon to be the final authority between what constitutes religious liberty and religious entitlement?

    "Education Is Not the Filling of a Pail, But the Lighting of a Fire" W.B. Yeats

    by RareBird0 on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 04:25:42 PM PDT

  •  hypocrites (0+ / 0-)

    How come this country has so many of them? How come so many people need religion? How come so many people are so petty? How come so many people are on a mission?
    This country is ruled by fear. Fear is part of being insecure and the powers that be keep the general public insecure and in fear. The people in power misuse the legal system to impose their will on others for no better reason than to exercise their power though usually it is also about money.
    It is sad that the political system in the US is so dysfunctional. Judges should not be nominated by the executive and confirmed by the legislative. That muddies the separation of powers that modern states have. The US system prevents checks and balances because politically selected and motivated judges will not work as check and balance on the party that brought them in but they will be balls and chains on the other party. That's why since decades the Republicans shifted their fight to putting "their" judges in place. Republicans have no political program that would convince the electorate so they work with fear, intimidation, and obstruction. Mr. Roberts is such just a tool for the Republicans who put him in place. He is a disgrace for the judicial system.
    US people should learn to abandon ideologies from religions to the "right to bear arms" to being and having "the best in the world" without even knowing the rest of the world.  That would clear the minds and set them free.

  •  As a devout Pastafarian, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ajaradom, two moms in Az

    I am now requiring my employees to incorporate spaghetti as a main component of their at-work meals and they're also now required to talk like pirates and wear colanders on their heads.

    May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage,

  •  And then, there's that slavery issue (0+ / 0-)

    The South historically claimed that the Bible justified slavery.  How long before American loons try to bring back slavery?  I wonder....

  •  Sing it, brother! (0+ / 0-)
    “The only way such companies ever learn to treat people with decency and tolerance is to hit them where it counts — in their pocketbooks.”
    That is all.

    The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance. It is the illusion of knowledge. - Daniel J. Boorstin

    by penelope pnortney on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 04:55:15 PM PDT

  •  A possible solution (0+ / 0-)

    Start recruiting non-Christian-owned corporations to discriminate against Christian and Jewish patrons and employees. The Supreme Court rules against them, and the precedent is established...

  •  Hobby Lobby (0+ / 0-)

    Still waiting for the Republican 5 and people that support their Hobby Lobby decision to show me how a corporation which is just paper or papers, has no substance can have religious beliefs since it can't read the Bible, Koran or other such religious books, can't go to any house of worship to hear the preacher, rabbi, priest or who ever leads the worship  service speak, can't sing the hymns, pray and spread its religious beliefs since it has voice, no brain is just paper.
     Also want to know how come a corporation can be said to have religious beliefs because it is a closely held corporation when this corporation and it's owners(the Green family)supports the abortion and anti religion laws of Communist China by buying most if not all the merchandise they sell at Hobby Lobby from China where most businesses, plants etc is partially owned or completely owned by the Communist government.
     By buying Chinese made merchandise they are agreeing with the policies of the Chinese government who does  or has done millions of abortions yearly,who aborts a pregnancy not matter how far a long a  woman is and then sterilizes that woman by force if they have to if  there the family already has one child . That one child per family leads to abortions being done when a woman finds out she is carrying a female instead of the male that all Chinese want to be their one child, the abandonment of millions of girl babies who are left to die on the side of the road , in the forests, on mountains or who are killed by their own family because she wasn't a boy when born.
    They are also agreeing with the government's policy of arresting and killing anyone that is religious and practices their religion, Making workers at these businesses. plants etc live in over crowded dorms while armed guards patrol outside and where workers are payed slave wages at the completely government businesses.
     In other words Hobby Lobby corporation has no religious beliefs when it buys it merchandise from China, makes it investments, it also pay money into the employees retirement fund, that makes it money.
    Iit's religious beliefs only kick in when birth control for their female employees and wives of male employees are mandated by the Affordable medical act and it doesn't want to cover birth control , even after  knowing the more birth control used, less abortions happens. Don't understand why anti abortion people are also anti birth control when it is a proven fact better birth control coverage leads to many less abortions.



  •  I became aware of the hypocrisy of Hobby Lobby ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BeninSC, two moms in Az

    I became aware of the hypocrisy of Hobby Lobby a few years ago. I was a conservative gay volunteer pastor and he was opening a new store in my town. As I was in need of gainful employment so I applied there. It looked like an ideal job for me as I was looking for one which would allow me to be off on sundays. I was promptly laughed at by the manager. He said that even though they were closed on Sunday, everyone still had to work Sunday as it was retail and everyone had to work to take inventory, stock shelves, etc. Being closed Sunday is just part of the mask they wear as a Corp. Oh, and I am no longer a christian....

  •  Hobby Lobby (0+ / 0-)

    American fundamentalist "Christians" are nothing more than the American Taliban.  There is no place for decency in their equation.  Have they never heard of the word of Jesus?

  •  The justices who with the majority were (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    all Catholics.  The official policy of the Catholic church is that sex should only be for procreation.

    This is a clear example of a case where the personal religious beliefs of public servants has prevented them from being able to perform their duties in an unbiased way.

    If the Justices' own deeply held religious beliefs kept them from being able to decide this case objectively and impartially, they should have recused themselves.

    Feel trickled on yet?

    by War4Sale on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 05:45:09 PM PDT

  •  Intention (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The whole point to Hobby Lobby's suit was to turn this country into a religious state.  It was designed to open the flood gates of religous exemptions for all kinds of services and protections. It was designed to attack separation of church and state and so it is to be expected that the moment the court decision came down the petitions for other exemptions were set into motion.  I would venture an educated guess that they were already prepared to go.

    Let's not be naieve.  This whole mess was intentionally designed--and not by any celestial being.

  •  The worst reasoned decision by the Court in memory (0+ / 0-)

    Sam Alito is shameless. I have some respect for a justice whose reasoning differs from the progressive view, but Alito couldn't claim a shred of intellectual honesty on this one. It ranks with Dred Scott. At some point, it and Citizens United will be overturned or greatly modified. At some point, a standard for "sincerely held belief" will have to be established.

    If the corporate veil is gone, why not sue the Greens for sexual discrimination?

    Meantime. this nonsense reinforces the need for universal health care. It's coming folks. I'll be dead before it happens, but it's coming.

    For outdoor sport, support the Hobby Lobby boycott. I buy my threads and linen on line for less money than HL charges and I don't have to listen to that infernal music.

    “The quality of owning freezes you forever in "I," and cuts you off forever from the "we.” ― John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

    by Miss Pip on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 06:16:36 PM PDT

  •  Mr. Sulu would do well to jump on the "update t... (0+ / 0-)

    Mr. Sulu would do well to jump on the "update the Bill of Rights for the 21st century bandwagon."

    The issue of having private organizations pay for embryo killers is not unique. Although I don't personally believe they are, tens of millions see fertilized eggs as humans. They blocked stem cell research under the Bush administration for this exact reason.

    They are playing the religion card to be sure. They are hypocrites. But Barack Obama opened that door with HIS allowing of religious exemption. The courts have many cases setting precedent for employees rights to not do things they object to. The pivotal point is burden. If there is a viable alternative you CANNOT infringe on this first, inalienable right to be superstitious.

    There is a case pending right now that the ACLU is fighting to allow a Muslim truck driver the right to REFUSE the delivery of beer for religious reasons. His boss had the ability-- with little burden-- of having him deliver other stuff, but denied him his right.

    This is the ACLU fighting for the religious rights of a Muslim man. Any guesses how it will end?

    Female employees of Hobby Lobby can still get their birth control. Employees of other companies will still get their birth control. It will just be paid for by someone other than the business owner.

    Until this inalienable right to superstition is removed from our Bill of Rights, we will watch the hypocritical right use it. And I agree that they should. Because although I am a liberal independent, as an atheist the government has NO RIGHT TO FORCE ME TO CLOSE MY BUSINESS ON SUNDAYS , EASTER, CHRISTMAS, etc. They cannot force me to put up a mezuzah in the Jewish quarter. They cannot force me to take down my pentagram, if I were Wiccan. And they can't force me to pay for what millions believe is the killing of a potential human being. Which is what an abortificiant does.

    If there were no other options, this case would be what Mr. Sulu and so many argue. It is not.

    Change the first amendment. Right after you dust off the ERA... remember that? Yea. None of you had done shit for that in 40 years. .. yet you call yourselves pro women's rights. I call bullshit.

  •  Sicker of religion with each passing day... (0+ / 0-)

    I've been an atheist since I doubted the existence of a Gawd as I was talking to myself in my bedroom one night, cough, I mean praying...

    Since then my position of self-righteous religious bullshit has pushed me to go all "activist" against it.

    When all this creationist insanity started, which to me is an act of desperation to try to legitimize their failed belief system as many of their followers starting to believe in science as opposed to fantasy, shit really started to hit the fan.  Now these  self-righteous Hobby Lobby clowns WIN their case?  That picture of their family with their izod-clad pastels and their superior church lady expressions nauseates me.

    Just when I think the political system in this country couldn't get any worse...  We're divided more than ever.  The worst is yet to come.  I really fear for the future of this country.

  •  No Hobby Lobby for this rabbit... (0+ / 0-)

    No Hobby Lobby for this rabbit...

  •  I began boycotting HL last year when I heard (0+ / 0-)

    ...about how they refuse to sell non-Christian items like Channukah decorative things-- menorahs, etc.  I'm neither Jewish nor Christian but I have friends who are, and this annoyed me enough that I took my business elsewhere and haven't been back.  And now there's this... Am I surprised?  Not even slightly.  Kudos to GT for laying things out so plainly and to Vyan for writing such an imformative follow-up; much appreciated.  I'll bet they HL's lawyers are seriously wishing right now that they'd picked something other than Law to major in back in college.

    "Se non è vero, è ben trovato." ('Even if it's not true, it's a good story.')

    by Ysabet on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 07:40:21 PM PDT

    •  Wal Mart--- (0+ / 0-)

      Wal Mart---at least where I live--will not sell Hannukah items.  Or if they do have them--and I am Jewish and HAVE looked--they are well hidden.  Loaded with every weird Christmas item tho!  

      Oddly enough Target HAS Hannukah things---I say this because they are ANTI-HANDICAPPED  in their beliefs and will TELL you this at a Corp level.  So to see them have a "Non-Christian/mainstream" display was---odd.  Welcome--but--odd.  

      And--Christmas Tree shops have a LARGE selection of Hannukah things!  

      Ask at your local Lowes for Hannukah items--yeah--just ASK.  They REFUSE to have them.    Threatened to FIRE employees who displayed a mild little HAPPY HANNUKAH sign--NEXT to the Merry Christmas sign!  

      Ya know--all inclusive and such-like.  

      Don't know about Agent Orange as I don't shop there.  

  •  Slippery Slopes (0+ / 0-)

    Not all negative rulings present the "slippery slopes" that, unfortunately, have been claimed by progressives too often. But this one certainly does, as demonstrated by the Wheaton ruling a day later and the 100+ suits now pending. fails to understand that these rulings can allow the Chick-fil-A's and CrackerBarrell's of this nation to refuse to hire, and then fire, LGBTs.  Alito falsely claimed this was a "narrow" ruling. But there is no way this ruling can be narrow -- and the evidence is the Wheaton ruling the following day and all those suits.

    Burwell opened the flood gates, and would make Washington, Madison, Adams and Jefferson sick.

  •  Burwell V Hobby Lobby (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    This ruling wasn't about abortion or contraceptives, and that's what so many do not understand. It was about religion trumping civil law.  What Jefferson, Adams, Madison and Washington all warned us against.

  •  boycotters (0+ / 0-)

    This has never been about corporate religious/Constitutional "rights," if it were, Hobby Lobby would not be hypocrites by using Chinese suppliers for the products they sell or investing in companies that manufacture abortion drugs through their 401k. They are externalizing their company's costs, so that they have lower costs than their competition.  
    In addition to individual consumers boycotting and or picketing, the insurance companies need to boycott Hobby Lobby. If they refuse to offer insurance that excludes "abortion drugs" and birth control, then Hobby Lobby will have to either offer coverage or compensate employees for obtaining insurance coverage that is equal to what their competition offers, thus negating the idiotic SCOTUS ruling.

  •  Splitting Religious Hairs (0+ / 0-)

    If you think that SCOTUS won't view other religions in the same light as the believers who run Hobby Lobby, here's a tidbit: When Jehovah's Witnesses in Malawi were under ban and persecution from that government because they refused to join the ruling political party, the then leader of Malawi, Kamuzu Banda was asked if his country had freedom of religious laws, he replied that his country did extend freedom to all religions .. except Jehovah's Witnesses.

  •  I Want (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    freedom FROM religion. I was raised by an ultra-religious mother. I was forced into religious schools. I was forced to attend a seminary. I left the church in the early nineties when I discovered the sexual molestations and coverups. I'm not against anyone who finds importance in religion. I simply don't want them forcing their ideology and dogma on me and other citizens. There's nothing more dangerous than a government based on religious ideology/dogma.

  •  I have already lost most respect for Congress a... (0+ / 0-)

    I have already lost most respect for Congress and the corrupt asshats in it. After Citizens United and, now, Hobby Lobby, those black sacks of hypocritical crap on the SCOTUS bench have proven themselves worthy of the same distain.

  •  God DAMN the "Right" (0+ / 0-)

    Because they are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

    Sex is just something "recreational?"  Then why do MEN get to have a pill to give them a "better" erection?  Do they take Viagra so they can better masturbate?

    The first person who tells me that will get rewarded with a fist in their recreational tools.

    As a victim of both polycystic ovarian syndrome and Endomitriosis, I had to have a total hysterectomy.  But prior to that, PILLS helped me for years.

    This formerly great country was a SECULAR country, founded on the freedom of the bullshit called "religion."  Religion has caused more wars and wanton murder than any other force, and now it has destroyed the United States of America by giving RELIGION the right to ignore the law of the land.

    July 3, 2014 shall go down in history as the day of INFAMY that destroyed the freedom we used to so honor.  SCOTUS must be stopped before it is really too late.

  •  They're claiming religious privilige (0+ / 0-)

    That really is the crux of the matter, religious privilige, not religious freedom. There was never ant issue with the bosses at Hobby Lobby practicing their religion. But extending that religion to the corporate "person" of Hobby Lobby is really just asking for a religious privilige, special treatment for a business because a private citizen believes so and so.

    That's a very slippery slope. Sure, the next guy will have to go to court if the special treatment is not about birth control. But other than making that exclusion in their decision, there is no good reason given why the next court won't use this decision for the next exemption to US Law, and the next, and the next.

    And while I've followed this from the get-go, big thanks to George for being the current voice of reason in a generally insane room, time and time again.

  •  If sex did not cause pregnancy.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ....there would not be any controversy over abortion or birth control.  The entire agenda is about controlling the sex lives of "other people".

    Homosexuals do not, by themselves, reproduce (though I expect to live to see the day when two women conceive via ovular fusion).  Hence much of the anti-gay bigotry throughout history.  It's a strange form of jealousy.  "They can have sex!  Without getting pregnant!  This must be evil!"

    I would LOVE to see a privately-held company owned by non-Christians require that its employees comply with the tenets of their faith.  It's almost enough to get me to become a Zoroastrian and once I have figured out all of the subtleties thereof, to open a business.  Anyone care to join me?  To my knowledge, there are no active Zoroastrian churches left.  But that could change....

    •  Why do you hate women? (0+ / 0-)

      The agenda wasn't about controlling sex.

      It was clearly about owners of a closely-held corporation not wanting a benefit they provide to their employees to be responsible for the destruction of a zygote (a fertilized egg) while the government had a less restrictive way of providing that benefit. Period.

      Homosexuality had nothing to do with this case.

      Further, why are you advocating creating a Zoroastrian church? Only in 2011 did the Tehran Mobeds Anjuman announce that for the first time in the history of Iran and of the Zoroastrian communities worldwide, women had joined the group of priests.  The women can only perform the lower-rung religious functions and can initiate people into the religion, that's it.

      Why would you create a business that followed such tenets? Why do you hate women?

  •  You can send a message to Hobby Lobby (0+ / 0-)

    by posting one on its website at:

    or by sending a letter or postcard:
    Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.
    7707 S.W. 44th Street
    Oklahoma City, OK 73179

    If anyone can find a phone number for Customer Service, call it, too.

    And put it on your calendar to repeat weekly.

    I was thinking of the false rumors that Madalyn Murray O'Hair was attempting to remove religious broadcasting from radios. A notice appeared in church bulletins, local newspapers, and eventually via email that included the FCC address and phone numbers.  The rumor would quiet down for a while, then pop up again. Periodically, the FCC had to hire hundreds of people to deal with the mail and phone calls.  And the rumor didn't have even a hint of truth to it.

  •  Shoulda (0+ / 0-)

    given us single payer like 75% of the people wanted in the first place. Pelosi was right when she said during the "health care debates" that the insurance companies were the villains. But the Dems (including our president) caved once again and we got the ACA instead which put the burden on the businesses. Of course no business should be allowed to say they don't accept the law as written but this wouldn't be an issue if they'd given us single payer. My other favorite villain in this mess is Senator Bacchus (D) who refused to hear the testimony of doctors and nurses who wanted to argue in favor of single payer. Blue dog D's like him gummed up the Democratic majority and are precisely why the Teaparty won power in 2010.

  •  No end ... (0+ / 0-)

    The "Supreme Court Five" = aka: Republican appointees all voted for this, while the Four Democrat appointees voted against it.  Here's my take on this - plain and simple; and more than just cause to REMOVE the five who voted for this.
    = = = = =
    The ruling creates a class of people who, by some impossible to prove or adequately define, are now exempt from that laws that the rest have to follow.
    = = = = =
    The "Supreme Court Five" must be removed. Citizens United v. FEC is yet another example of their horrific and terribly misguided rulings.

  •  Would Hobby Lobby notice if dozens of shoppers ... (0+ / 0-)

    Would Hobby Lobby notice if dozens of shoppers showed up at every store, filled their baskets with merchandise from every corner of the store, and left? No baskets, no shoppers? Fun thinking about it. It would be easy to organize-no shortage of volunteers I bet!

  •  it would help if someone would proofread (0+ / 0-)

    why cant anyone at kos bother to proofread an article before it is posted?  holy hell this is one of the worst written pieces ever.  it is very distracting trying to read posts as poorly written as this one especially when it contains such good info.

  •  So Little Caesar's (0+ / 0-)

    now has the right feed their Christian employees to the lions as affirmed by the SCOTUS.

  •  OK, so why not ban male "enhancement" products? (0+ / 0-)

    They're marketed for recreational use--not one Cialis or Viagra, or penis pump commercial ever ends with the Miracle of Birth. It's always some 40 or 50 something couple and kids ain't happening. It just shows that this is yet another effort to control us women. When will we wake up and vote these haters out?

  •  This isn't about this... (0+ / 0-)

    It has nothing to do with Birth Control.

    It has nothing to do with Religion.

    It is nothing more then creating further "Rights" for corporations that can be used for other issues that are much more important.

    This is about establishing precedent. Everything else is just a distraction...

    Think about what this ruling WILL be used for when it is cited in a future case as justification for why it was perfectly legal for "Corporation X" to do "Y".

  •  Those pesky floodgates . . . (0+ / 0-)

    "Religious Organizations and companies are in fact already attempting to push back on President Obama's brand new rules requiring LGBT equality for Federal Contractors in the immediate aftermath of Hobby Lobby."

    How about this? If you are not willing to abide by the federal law because you feel it compromises your values, don't bid on government contracts. It's a free-market world. I am certain there are plenty of customers willing to pay handsomely--even lucratively--for your goods and/or services without requiring you to do anything you find distasteful.

    There, tortured conscience appeased.

  •   "Yet they (women) wouldn't have the problem (0+ / 0-)

    if they didn't do a certain thing. It's that simple."

    -No, Rush, it's slightly more complex. Use your investigative skills and research how babies are made. If you are still confused, here's a hint-
      -women, like other mammals, don't self-pollinate.

    "In some sort of crude sense, which no vulgarity, no humor, no overstatement can quite extinguish, the physicists have known sin, and this is a knowledge which they cannot lose."
                              --J Robert Oppenheimer

  •  One point missed by Ashleigh Banfields (0+ / 0-)

    and her guest is that when they point out the "investments are made by their employee's not by the company" being a possible defense for Hobby Lobby's investments in certain pharmaceutical companies that manufacture the birth control they claim they're against;  Couldn't, then, the female employees say that it's them using the birth control and not Hobby Lobby owners?!?!

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