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New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio (L) and New York Governor Andrew Cuomo attend the Super Bowl Hand-Off Ceremony on Super Bowl Boulevard in Times Square as part of the Super Bowl lead up in New York February 1, 2014. REUTERS/Andrew Kelly (UNITED STATES - Tags: SPORT FOOTBALL POLITICS) - RTX18456
Bill de Blasio and Andrew Cuomo, BFFs
Bill de Blasio was swept into office as New York City's mayor last year in a landslide, riding a groundswell of liberal support to end two decades of Republican rule in the country's biggest city. He was hailed as a vanguard of the progressive movement, and a further sign that the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party was ascendant.

If only.

De Blasio, swiftly dealt a humiliating defeat over charter schools at the hands of New York's infamously reactionary Democratic governor, Andrew Cuomo, has since tucked tail. He lavished praise on Cuomo while formally nominating him as the party's gubernatorial candidate in May, then helped broker a deal that secured the Working Family Party's endorsement for Cuomo later that same month.

Now comes the ultimate act of betrayal. As you may know, a group of five renegade Democrats, known as the Independent Democratic Conference, is responsible for giving control of New York's state Senate to the Republicans, even though Democrats hold a majority in the chamber. A pair of stalwart progressives, Oliver Koppell and John Liu, are challenging two members of the IDC, who have blocked liberal priorities from passing into law. Daily Kos has endorsed both candidates, in order to help take back the Senate—which should rightfully be in Democratic hands—and to send a message to wayward Democrats everywhere that there are consequences for stabbing your party in the back.

Pathetically, de Blasio doesn't see things that way. He seems to have bought into the IDC's bogus non-promise to return to the fold next year and has now endorsed the two men Koppell and Liu are trying to defeat: state Sens. Jeff Klein (the IDC's ringleader) and Tony Avella. His stated reasons for doing so are just absolutely gross:

"Throughout this past session, Sen. Jeff Klein and Sen. Tony Avella worked tirelessly on behalf of the residents of New York City and helped make progress on issues that had been stalled for far too long," de Blasio said in a statement Tuesday.
De Blasio cited new funding for universal pre-K, but of course, that would also have passed had Democrats been in control of the legislature. How about all the stuff that didn't pass—or even come up for a vote—like the Women's Equality Act, serious campaign finance reform, a fracking moratorium or the state-level DREAM Act?

And really, a supposed progressive exponent is now hailing a bunch of power-hungry egomaniacs who threw an entire legislative chamber in a dark blue state to the Republicans just to satisfy their own ambitions? De Blasio obviously finds life a lot easier when he's in Cuomo's good graces, and going along with the charade that the IDC are now somehow good guys who will soon make nice with mainstream Democrats is a way to stay there. (After all, Cuomo has long been fond of the IDC, since they prevent him from having to sign or veto anything that might upset the 1 percenters.) This is just transactional politics at its very worst, and it's sick.

Originally posted to Daily Kos Elections on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 02:42 PM PDT.

Also republished by New York City and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  To say he's been a major disappointment (29+ / 0-)

    is to put it mildly.

    "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

    by Paleo on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 02:48:18 PM PDT

    •  I wouldn't go that far (19+ / 0-)

      as the day to day manager of the city, I think he's done much better than Bloomberg already.  However, as a leader, or even a proponent of a particular set of political values, he's the failure we all should have expected.  DeBlasio has never done much of import other than make the right noises.  The real progressive in the last race was Liu, but he was effectively marginalized by the system.  

    •  I'm sick to death of the politicians (17+ / 0-)

      who campaign like a liberal and then govern like a Republican.

      There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

      by Puddytat on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:24:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Seriously? (9+ / 0-)

        Bill de Blasio is governing like a REPUBLICAN?

        I wish Republicans did the type of things he did.

      •  In case anyone wants to throw some support to (9+ / 0-)

        the Daily Kos endorsed candidates, here are the ActBlue pages forJohn Liu and Oliver Koppell.

        I just sent a bit of cash their way.

      •  Do you live in New York? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        carolnyc, Phoenix Woman

        What a bizarre claim! I don't like this realpolitik either, but I guess that's what he thinks he needs to do to get money for the city. Remember when Giuliani endorsed Mario Cuomo for reelection because he knew Pataki would screw the city? Once Pataki won, he was all lovey-dovey with Pataki. It didn't seem to help the city, as Pataki did proceed to screw us, but perhaps things would have been even worse if he had not conceded to reality. And that's Giuliani, who actually was a Republican, albeit quite a moderate one except on matters of policing. What's your evidence, other than realpolitik, that De Blasio is governing like a Republican?

        Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

        by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 06:46:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You see this from parties PRETENDING to be liberal (0+ / 0-)

        ...yet another reason I vote Green Party.

        •  Enjoy your purism (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Phoenix Woman, charliehall2, TLS66

          while you help split the left-wing vote and enable Republicans to win.

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 04:15:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Rigged game (0+ / 0-)

            "while you help split the left-wing vote and enable Republicans to win."

            The Democratic Party has brought us:

            "Free-trade" laws that send American jobs to low-wage countries, ending net neutrality, no single-payer health care, trying to help the Republicans cut Social Security, refusing to prosecute the biggest financial criminals in the history of the world, claiming the right to execute US citizens on foreign soil without charging, trying, or even attempting to apprehend them, unlabeled GMO frankenfoods in our supermarkets, the NSA wiretapping all our phone and email communications, allowing the military to arrest U.S. citizens without charges and detain them indefinitely, agreeing with the Republicans to do nothing about homelessness, overturning Glass-Steagall which allowed banksters to gamble with OUR money, more nuclear power plants, ending welfare for starving people, brutally assaulting peaceful Occupy protestors with militarized police, jailing government whistleblowers as spies, and no prosecutions of the Bush-Administration torturers.

            Your unconditional support for the Democratic Party enables them to get away with this crap, while you vote for them out of fear of the Republicans.

            You're a dupe playing the rigged game of the two corporate-funded parties.

            The Green Party doesn't accept corporate money and they represent CITIZENS' interests. Your Green vote adds to the 157 Green officeholders, and sends a message to the corporate parties that selling out citizens to corporate interests will cost them votes.

            And this message is sent even if the Greens you vote for don't win.

            VOTE GREEN 2014!

            •  Which Green Party- there are several (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MichaelNY, charliehall2

              Including the Potemkin one set up to be Ralph Nader's presidential election vehicle.

              Oh, and Nader wanted Bush to win.
              http://m.huffpost.com/...

              Visit http://theuptake.org/ for Minnesota news as it happens.

              by Phoenix Woman on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 05:05:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I'm a socialist. Don't preach to me. (0+ / 0-)

              I also know that just as Dr. King taught us, we should keep our eyes on the prize while accepting every half-measure on the way and keeping on fighting. I don't have to be in the mainstream of as right-wing a party as the Democratic Party to understand that in the US system, any progressive change requires the Republicans to be out of power, and the only way to achieve that is to vote Democratic.

              Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

              by MichaelNY on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 05:15:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your "strategy" of unconditionally voting for (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                RepublicansDemise

                ...corporate shills with a 'D' in front of their names has been a dismal failure.  The Democratic Party does not represent the left, and like the Republicans, it serves the 1%.

                They're taking us to corporate fascism, just at a slower rate than the Republicans.

                This is unacceptable.  They don't "own" my votes, and my votes will go to candidates and parties that represent CITIZENS' interests -- not corporate interests.

                Look at the Green Party's Green New Deal: http://www.jillstein.org/...

                Honestly, does ANYTHING proposed by the corporate-funded Democratic Party compare to this?

                Check it out.  I'll wait.

                •  This is a site dedicated to electing Democrats. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MichaelNY

                  Not Green Party members. Perhaps you'd like to find somewhere else to post?

                  Also, by voting Green Party people like you enabled Citizens United, and the destruction of our electoral system, to happen. Had Bush not been president, and had he not gotten his Supreme Court picks, Citizens United would've been ruled differently and we'd be allowed to regulate campaign spending.

                  Just one of the many ways Green and Nader voters have thrown the country the finger in the name of purity.

  •  We knew it was coming (24+ / 0-)

    But boy is it hard to accept. Oh well. I've learned to temper my hopes when it comes to supposed progressives. Just take a look at our Orange to Blue candidates. Tammy Duckworth is just as bad as the Third Way when it comes to everything other than veteran affairs.

    •  But Why? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Simplify, Puddytat, mr market, Tommy Aces

      Why do we see this pattern of supposed progressives becoming much more right wing?  It somehow seems unlikely that they had simply "pretended" to be progressive.  DeBlasio in particular.

       

      An illusion can never be destroyed directly... SK.

      by Thomas Twinnings on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:08:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  See my comment below (0+ / 0-)

        from someone who's known him a while.

        "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

        by sidnora on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:23:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  They really like our boots to be on the (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lujane, MichaelNY

        ground during their campaign.  Nobody works harder than liberals to get a progressive into office.  

        Republicans pay people to canvass and phone bank.  Moderates don't do it, so to get an army of volunteers willing to do the hard work, they rely on progressives.

        There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

        by Puddytat on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:26:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And as for why so many do this... (8+ / 0-)

          It's because all the power in politics is with the money, and progressives haven't got it, particularly after years of trickle down economics. Most people in this country barely have the money to live on, but corporations have the deep pockets to fund everything.

          What inevitably happens is that candidates tell themselves that they will accomplish nothing as a progressive, but if they cut a deal they might get something.

          It happens again and again. And I take it as a sign that our present government has to come to an end.

          Ignorance more frequently begets confidence then knowledge. Charles Darwin

          by martianexpatriate on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:39:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But de Blasio is living it (10+ / 0-)
            What inevitably happens is that candidates tell themselves that they will accomplish nothing as a progressive, but if they cut a deal they might get something.
            Look at his charter school fight and his battle to get the tax hike to pay for universal pre-K. He went to Albany and virtually no one followed. They were outnumbered by astroturf and the media ate it up.
            •  So one strike out and he quits?? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tikkun

              What's he made of - paper machete?

              The only reason the 1% are rich is because the 99% agree they are.

              by GreatLakeSailor on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 05:33:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't see this as quitting (7+ / 0-)

                I see this as playing the game a different way. He can't get another vote on his agenda in Albany until next year. The thing he lacks there is leverage.

                If Avella and Klein are going to be there either way (and no one realistically believed Klein was going to lose, Avella possibly, but it wasn't likely), why not build leverage?

                •  I'll believe it when I see it... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MichaelNY

                  What's to stop Avella and Klein from doing the same turncoat thing again?  They seem as trustworthy as Cuomo.  Where's the leverage then?

                  Why not court the local city counselpersons?  Butter up them and their constituents to support better state Dems?  

                  The only reason the 1% are rich is because the 99% agree they are.

                  by GreatLakeSailor on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 06:02:50 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree with you (6+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Byrnt, MichaelNY, JerryNA, carolnyc, tikkun, Randian

                    but I think it's unfair to lay all of this at the feet of deBlasio.  Albany exerts significant control over the city, so at some point deB has to try to get along with them.  The scorn should be directed at the state party establishment from Cuomo on down.  deBlasio cannot change how the state party behaves, but those at that level certainly can do.  

                  •  Nothing (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MichaelNY, JerryNA, Phoenix Woman, Randian
                    What's to stop Avella and Klein from doing the same turncoat thing again?
                    Nothing. That's the risk de Blasio is taking. But politics in New York, despite the fact that some people don't want me to say because it doesn't suit their beliefs, it's very "I'll scratch your back and you scratch mine."

                    De Blasio is counting on Klein and Avella remembering when they're in office next year. In the past that's worked out well for others like him. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.

                  •  Because (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MichaelNY
                    Why not court the local city counselpersons?  Butter up them and their constituents to support better state Dems?  
                    like I said, politics in New York doesn't fall on ideology. Local council people do their own thing, some are aligned with the county party and follow their orders, some do the exact opposite.

                    Here's the thing, most of the Queens Democratic brass, including council members, are supporting Liu. The borough president is supporting Liu. The mayor is not.

                    •  My bad - "better" Dems (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      poorbuster

                      I should have said Dems the Mayor can count on in furthering his aims, ie not Avella and Klein - no trust.

                      The way it works in the midwest - city council members support who the Mayor tells them to support, campaigns for them, etc., etc., in return potholes get filled, building permits get issued, garbage gets picked up, you get the idea.  deB can exercise considerable pressure on those closest to the voters.  

                      I was wondering why he chose not to go that route for leverage.

                      The only reason the 1% are rich is because the 99% agree they are.

                      by GreatLakeSailor on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 09:07:58 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  All Politics Is Local Politics (0+ / 0-)

                      I was looking for this example when I wrote my first reply, then stumbled upon it this morning.
                      from: https://en.wikipedia.org/...

                      Example

                      During the 1982 Congressional elections, O'Neill's seat was challenged by Massachusetts lawyer Frank McNamara, who had financed most of his campaign with money from oil interests in Oklahoma and Texas. Voters in Massachusetts, plagued by oil prices and a poor economy for many years, felt no love for McNamara and his oil money and instead mocked him as he announced his candidacy on the steps of the US Capitol.

                      Later during those elections, O'Neill introduced a $1-billion jobs bill to the table. House Republican Leader Robert H. Michel of Peoria, Illinois opposed the bill, but O'Neill delivered an address broadcast in Peoria that showed how many infrastructure problems in Peoria would be fixed by the bill. "By hitting his rival where he lived, O'Neill translated a wholesale debate over national economic policy to the local, retail level" (Matthews 53).

                      In my calculus (quite admittedly from many, many miles away) it is certainly no greater a risk to go Retail Politics against the Right Wing Dems than the risk involved in trusting self-serving liars...again.  deB chose the latter and that gambit has been a disaster for working people for 30+ years.

                      I was hoping deBlasio would 'take it to the mat' but again, I ain't on the ground there in the two districts in question, so my opinion and five cents will get you a nickel.

                      The only reason the 1% are rich is because the 99% agree they are.

                      by GreatLakeSailor on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 09:51:50 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I'm not so sure about your calculus (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Phoenix Woman, charliehall2

                        Check out what happened to FDR when he campaigned for primary opponents of a lot of Dixiecrats who were opposed to his New Deal programs, or some of them.

                        Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                        by MichaelNY on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 12:47:56 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  It's not exactly the same thing (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Phoenix Woman, MichaelNY

                        first de Blasio is not popular in Avella's district. He is with Democrats and this is a Democratic primary, but with general voters he's not. This is far eastern Queens on the Nassau County border. Lhota won one of the main Assembly district that are inside the Senate district.

                        He's a bit more popular in Klein's, but not entirely. And Klein has a portion of conservative Westchester County too, who would not at all be interested in what de Blasio has to say about his agenda.

                        Anyway, that was 1982, this is today. The idea that Nancy Pelosi would be able to go to West Chester, Ohio and try to sell immigration reform or a spending bill is ludicrous. She'd be booed out of town. This is a far more partisan era.

      •  Well, honestly... (7+ / 0-)

        Those of us who know De Blasio never really considered him a progressive. WFP and people like De Blasio are progressive when it suits them and sells out whenever they think it is better for their ambitions. It wasn't that hard to see it if you look at his overall career. On the city council developers loved him. As Public Advocate he did almost nothing. My wife likes to point out he takes very vocal stands on things he can't do anything about and stays quiet about things he actually can do something about. I do think he might have WANTED to follow through on some genuine progressive things once he made mayor, but honestly he always gives in to suit his ambition and will do so at the drop of a hat.

        FREEDOM ISN'T FREE: That's why we pay taxes! Progressive Blogging New York: Write Now NY Find me on Linkedin.

        by mole333 on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 06:51:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I never thought De Blasio was progressive (0+ / 0-)

        and I never understood why people around here bought his bill of goods. But given the junk science I've seen here recently it should be no surprise, I guess.

    •  you seem to have unsatiable demands (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      carolnyc, Rogneid

      it seems to a lot of DKers, no one is progressive enough

      idiosyncratic, slightly anarchist, darwinist, moral relativist, fan of satire

      by bonzo925 on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 07:38:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  same folks admire the tea party (0+ / 0-)

        in how they create leverage to get what they want. Very similar, and they'll pick somebody like Greenwald and parrot his views to the letter like authoritarians, also similar to those on the right that identify themselves as the tea party.

        I think that progressives in general have to risk losing to make a stand. Standing up to rich and corporate interests is an underdog position and people should know that every ounce gained is going to be a struggle. Don't know what to say if some refuse to realize that.

        •  Risk losing? (0+ / 0-)

          This is the first Democratic mayor we've had since Dinkins! And did you see the clown who was his opponent? I'm a New Yorker, and I care a lot about who runs my city, even if you don't.

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 08:26:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  But the problem is (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MichaelNY, professormike

          progressives don't think they CAN lose, so when they do, they blame someone else.

          •  Yup (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TLS66

            The most amusing thing about the far left is how utterly unaware of how similar they are to the far right.

            "If only we nominated a true progressive..."

            •  Let's not use "far left" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Phoenix Woman

              "Far left" is Stalinism, and maybe other forms of non-democratic Communism. The problem with certain progressives on this site is not that their politics is "far left." In many cases, I'm sure their ideals are actually to my right, as I'm a social democrat. It's the difference between rigid idealism and open-eyed pragmatism that's at issue. That's a difference not of ideals but of attitude.

              Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

              by MichaelNY on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 12:51:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Stalin was really far right in many ways (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY

                Trotsky was more far left. (I mean this is the daily kos after all)

                But either way I'd argue it's a difference of both. The firmness of one's ideology also shapes your attitude. When Bill de Blasio is insufficiently liberal for you, you are so far out of the mainstream to almost have rendered yourself irrelevant.

  •  Bill Bratton's appointment (21+ / 0-)

    was the first ominous sign, although I seem to recall a lot of excuse-making around these parts at the time.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 02:56:23 PM PDT

  •  They All Disappoint (27+ / 0-)

    Pols are pols and do what they do:

    As citizens and activists, our allegiances have to be to the issues we believe in. I am a partisan Democrat it is true. But the reason I am is because I know who we can pressure to do the right thing some of the times. Republicans aren't them. But that does not mean we accept the failings of our Democrats. There is nothing more important that we can do, as citizens, activists or bloggers than fight to pressure DEMOCRATS to do the right thing on OUR issues.

    And this is true in every context I think. Be it pressing the Speaker or the Senate majority leader, or the new hope running for President. There is nothing more important we can do. Nothing. It's more important BY FAR than "fighting" for your favorite pol because your favorite pol will ALWAYS, I mean ALWAYS, disappoint you.

    In the middle of primary fights, citizens, activists and bloggers like to think their guy or woman is different. They are going to change the way politics works. They are going to not disappoint. In short, they are not going to be pols. That is, in a word, idiotic.

    Yes, they are all pols. And they do what they do. Do not fight for pols. Fight for the issues you care about. That often means fighting for a pol of course. But remember, you are fighting for the issues. Not the pols.

  •  New Netherland strikes again. (16+ / 0-)

    Supporting equality when intellectual or social freedom is under attack, but when it's a matter of economics or access to political power, allowing the aristocracy to prevail.

    "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is the first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk. Every state is totalitarian at heart; there are no ends to the cruelty it will go to to protect itself." -- Ian McDonald

    by Geenius at Wrok on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 02:59:41 PM PDT

  •  The Cuomo family has form (16+ / 0-)

    For betraying Democratic mayors.  Mario Cuomo stuck a knife in David Dinkins' back by working with Republicans to first create a study on secession for Staten Island, then a referendum measure during the 1993 election, which increased right-wing turnout and ensured Rudy Giuliani's victory over Dinkins.

    http://www.silive.com/...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    •  Some Dems seem to put (9+ / 0-)

      Mario on a similar pedestal to the one many Republicans put Reagan on.

      Me - I don't get it.  Mario said a lot of good things, but his actions weren't really that far away from what his son is doing now.

      "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

      by Darth Stateworker on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:15:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not quite (5+ / 0-)

        yes, Mario is more renowned for his speeches than his deeds, but he did oppose the death penalty at a time when people were crying for blood.  He was also very supportive of women's reproductive rights.  But, as governor, he was not much to write home about.  

        •  That's exactly what Andrew does. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lujane, zemongoose, tikkun

          He's a huge champion of liberal social issues, while his economic policy is shit.

          Hence the comparison and the statement that they are a lot alike.

          "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

          by Darth Stateworker on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:38:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Mario wasn't as bad as his progeny IMO (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lujane, MichaelNY

            on economic issues.  I am happy to be dissuaded from my recollection.  

            As for Andy, I don't see him championing any social issue, although he does try to use them to his benefit.  It's not really worth arguing because we are merely disagreeing about a matter of degree.  To me, Andy is contemptible (his half-wit brother is no better), whereas Mario was merely ineffectual.  YMMV.

            •  "Mario wasn't as bad as his progeny..." (6+ / 0-)

              I believe this is only true because Mario governed in a different time - a time when it was far less acceptable for a Democrat to be an outright (and blatantly obvious) corporate tool.

              However, I can't remember even one wide-scale economic initiative that was remotely liberal, even by todays standards.  At best, he implemented a few centrist economic items that didn't rock the boat.  However, it can certainly be pointed out that he also did some very conservative-esque things economically.  His relationship with his labor unions at the time is a perfect example - he was about as antagonistic as Reagan.  One perfect example I see every paycheck is his implementation of a lag pay system.  He tried to do that twice, and was shot down in court the second time.  He started the whole "public-private partnership" craze here, he was utterly focused on business needs (and frequently bragged about his "balanced budget" and referred to his "progressive pragmatism."  Again - economically, the two are essentially twins in my book.

              I agree with you that Andrew is an opportunist when it comes to liberal social policy and fights for it more for political expediency and the liberal "street cred" it brings him then outright belief in the causes he fights for (SSM, gun control, WEA, etc).  Andrew uses social issues as a distraction much in the same manner that Republicans do.  However, it's more than enough to fool most NY voters into thinking he's "liberal."  So regardless of his reasoning, he still fights for liberal social causes in the same way that his father fought for liberal social causes.

              The apple did not fall far from the tree.  At all.

              "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

              by Darth Stateworker on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 05:23:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Really good observations (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Phoenix Woman

                You know or/and remember stuff about Cuomo pere that I didn't know or forgot. In some degree of mitigation, it should also be remembered that the Republicans had a large majority in the State Senate during the entire time he was in office, though, so while he is to be blamed for stuff he pushed, he can't be blamed for not getting a bunch of liberal stuff through the Senate, because that wasn't possible.

                Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 06:52:41 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'd reiterate on that (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Phoenix Woman, charliehall2

                  that it was a different time.  Republicans weren't obstructionist nutjobs back then, and New York Republicans still, for the most part, aren't obstructionist nutjobs.  The people in this state simply won't tolerate that.

                  Sure, there are a few here and there (Greg Ball, Steve McLaughlin), but they are outliers.  Most GOPers here are a different animal than say, Texas.  You can get a few of them to meet you halfway with a little negotiation - hence SSM and the SAFE Act passing.

                  As for Mario, it isn't that he simply couldn't get anything through the Senate - he never even made any big liberal economic proposals in the first place.  He was just as cozy with Wall Street and the rest of the FIRE sector then as Andrew is today.

                  People tend to forget just how disaffected voters were in this state with Cuomo when we elected Pataki from out of nowhere.  Even many of the unions abandoned Mario to endorse Pataki.

                  "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

                  by Darth Stateworker on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 08:57:08 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm a New Yorker, Darth (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Phoenix Woman

                    I know that the Republicans in the State Senate are not like Republicans from Alabama or something. However, they are not willing to pass redistributionist legislation - weren't then and aren't now. And especially because their base is outside of New York City, they make sure to screw us as much as they can. You may not be sure they wouldn't have passed some grand liberal program if Cuomo proposed one, but I am sure they wouldn't have.

                    Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                    by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 09:07:01 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I don't disagree (3+ / 0-)

                      that they can be intransigent at times on economic issues.  The point is they are no more intransigent than Republicans used to be.

                      Mario upon first getting in office was almost an imperial governor - much like Andrew is now.  At one point he had  polling numbers like Andrew does that are enough to make the Senate GOPers nervous and not willing to fight all that hard, provided they get something in return.

                      Let's put it this way - todays mainstream GOPers are pretty ambivalent towards SSM, so its eventual passage wasn't a surprise.  The SAFE Act, on the other hand - that's a different story.  Even moderate GOPers go apeshit over gun control, even here in New York.  Andrew had the polling numbers to get it passed anyway, and Skelos knew it.  Point being - they don't go any more apeshit over economic policies then they do gun control - and Mario at one point had the same level of influence that Andrew does now.  Yet he didn't even offer any major proposals as would be expected of a guy lionized as a liberals liberal.  deBlasios idea for Universal Pre-K was more liberal than anything Mario ever even proposed, much less tried to negotiate with the legislature.

                      He shouldn't be on that pedestal some choose to put him on, and Andrew is much closer to his fathers style than people remember.

                      PS:  I realize you are from New York.  However, when you tell me how impossible it is to get things past the GOP here, you left me no choice but to point out that most of our GOPers are a more moderate animal than the wingnuts in DC.

                      "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

                      by Darth Stateworker on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 09:26:40 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Well, the Republicans here (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Darth Stateworker, Phoenix Woman

                        are pretty similar to the Democrats. They're only a bit more socially conservative, and the main similarity is that nearly everyone seems to be on the take, either legally or/and illegally. However, there is a real difference in terms of taxation and spending policy.

                        I do agree about Cuomo. His liberality was indeed mostly talk. But I really don't think he could have gotten grand liberal budgets past the Republican-controlled Senate.

                        Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                        by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 09:45:30 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Even with spending policy (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          MichaelNY, hmi, charliehall2

                          the GOP here aren't that difficult.  Take todays news about the $3.3B BNP Paribas settlement money the state will be getting.

                          In any other state, the GOPers would be going apeshit about using it for tax cuts and whatever other giveaways to the wealthy they could think of.  Here - they proposed to use a sizable chunk of it for infrastructure spending and restoring some more of Patersons school aide cuts - along with proposing using it to accelerate a handful of upcoming tax cuts.

                          Even with taxation, they aren't impossible - Paterson steamrolled through the millionaires tax surcharge during the recession, and before that, they even went for the MCTMT tax legislation.

                          Point being:  they're different animals, and not impossible to negotiate with - even on spending and taxation.  Not today, and certainly not back in Marios era were even the wingnuts were more centrist than todays mainstream.

                          I agree completely that they're all on the take.  Repubs, Dems - being on the take seems to be a longstanding NY tradition.  We have some of the most corrupt politics in the nation - and that sucks.  Maybe Preet Bharara will make some inroads on that.  He did just indict Libous the other day.

                          "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

                          by Darth Stateworker on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 10:02:24 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  Actually they DO pass redistributionist laws (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      MichaelNY

                      Redistribute the wealth from the city to the suburbs, primarily to prop up their hopelessly inefficient school systems.

              •  Overton window conveyor belt - ongoing process (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Darth Stateworker

                as the continental drift to the right by Republicans dives into the political crust heading for Hades... it pulls everything rightwards with it... the driving force is corporate money and accommodation with it... as Democrats go centrist and more and more moderate republican in substance what will happen? It does look like the charade will continue until the Republican party either snaps back to the center a bit or dies off from being too extreme... but they would only revive that way only if Dems change course and go more progressive...

                what seems more likely is that they will continue to be so extreme they become irrelevant pariahs and fade out, replaced by a center right corporate-pushed watered down big tent Democratic party that more and more moderates and Republicans choose and then dominate... leaving progressives to start over with a new party eventually.

                rinse and repeat... only the external trappings change.

                Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

                by IreGyre on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 03:02:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Hugh Carey was no progressive either (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY

                at least on economic issues. He did, however, save the state during the fiscal crisis of the 1970s.

      •  Andrew Cuomo was Mario's chief of Staff (5+ / 0-)

        Question is

        Who led whom?  

        And /or

        And then the question is who was willing to be lead?

        Both Cuomos are/were criticized for either doing nothing to help or even to hinder Democrats winning the State Senate.

        I am sceptical that the pledge will come to fruition.  

        However the Governor put a lot of pressure on the unions that were part of the Working Families Party. The unions, which are the main funding source of the WFP, put lots of pressure on the activists and grassroots member of the WFP.

        Now the unions led by SEIU 1199 have decided to actually help the IDC members win reelection!!!

        Some may not know but 1199 supported George Pataki, 3 term Republican governor.

        Seems to me if they really want a Democratic majority State Senate, then they should be putting money into the  seats on Long Island, the Fuschillo and Zeldin open seats and into Adam Haber's race against Republican Jack Martins. They should be helping Terry Gipson and Cecilia Tkaczyk upstate as well as Ted O' Brian upstate
        .

        If the Unions like 1199 really want to keep to their pledge to spend the 10 million they promised to turn the State Senate blue, then those candidates are the ones they  should be helping, not the IDC.

        If they really meant it.

        Debra "But what I have concluded over the years is that talent is universal, but opportunity is not." SOS Clinton

        by debcoop on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 10:34:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The WFPCon was a debacle. (3+ / 0-)

          It was member against member, union versus union.

          I didn't surprise me that 1199 decided to fall for Cuomo - because that seems to be the only union he has actually done anything for during his tenure.  I was more than a little disappointed that the CWA and many of the building trades unions fell his way.

          On the upshot, most of the public sector unions still told his people to bugger off at the WFPCon.  Me - I've come to the conclusion that the WFP no longer serves it's purpose, and is now all about promoting Dan Cantors personal agenda.

          "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

          by Darth Stateworker on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 11:25:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  NY State AFL-CIO endorsed ten Republicans (0+ / 0-)

          in NY State Senate elections last time around. All ten won. Nine were in districts that could have elected a Democrat.

          Please tell me why we are supporting unions?

    •  Yep (6+ / 0-)

      that 90% voter turnout on SI put Giuliani over the top.  Of course, as always, the issue has never been raised again since.  

    •  I'm glad someone besides me remembers this (0+ / 0-)
    •  I never knew that about Cuomo (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman

      I hated Dinkins, though (although I held my nose and voted for him against Giuliani).

      Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

      by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 06:50:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  oh come on! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude, oxfdblue, PassionateJus

    He's only been in office for 6 months. What do you guys want, a pony? Sorry your unicorn hasn't arrived.

    Dear NSA: I am only joking.

    by Shahryar on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 03:12:30 PM PDT

  •  Well said! Agree 100%. nt (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bobswern, Sylv, Mannie, Puddytat
    •  We live in NY, where, like D.C.... (21+ / 0-)

      ...99% of the politicians are all cut from the same cloth. The old, "...there is no red nor blue...there's only green." Or, as W.C. Fields once stated it (it's the punchline of a slightly longer joke): "We know what you are. We're just trying to determine your price."

      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

      by bobswern on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 03:30:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Its a long struggle. (11+ / 0-)

        Improvements wont come in one fell swoop. De Blasio has been good for our folks in Bed-Stuy having a good working relationship with our new Councilman who isnt corrupt yet. I say yet.

        Nostrand Ave is getting plenty of much needed improvement and the trash collection and code enforcement has stepped up considerably. That could also be because of all the new white folks moving in, but either way its better for us.

        There's a new small business initiative underway with the churches who own a lot of property around here. Thats good for our local jobs for local folks focus.

        He's a significant improvement over Bloomberg who cared less about our Borough and Bed-Stuy in particular.

        •  Having lived in Brooklyn briefly in the late 80's (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lujane, MichaelNY, bobswern, Phoenix Woman

          for just under a year, in Prospect Heights, which back then was considered to be a "transitional" neighborhood (translation: part Park Slope gentrification, part Crown Heights ghettofication), I was amazed at how yuppified it had gotten since then, on my first visit to the area in 25 years. It actually wasn't that bad even back then, nor unsafe, just not as fancy or pretty as Park Slope. I never felt endangered there. My parents, on the other hand...

          Anyway, I hope that some of the "grittier" parts of north-central Brooklyn, like East NY, Fort Greene, Bed-Stuy, all along Myrtle Ave., get the Prospect/Crown Heights treatment, without white yuppies pushing all the generational locals away (which means that de Blasio's going to have to make good on his sounds too good to be true housing initiative). NYC has the potential to become a great city for those not in the top 10-20%. In fact it has to, to survive.

          "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

          by kovie on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 05:35:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't know that that's possible (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lujane, MichaelNY
            Anyway, I hope that some of the "grittier" parts of north-central Brooklyn, like East NY, Fort Greene, Bed-Stuy, all along Myrtle Ave., get the Prospect/Crown Heights treatment, without white yuppies pushing all the generational locals away
            This is probably not possible. You can't gentrify without money and money pushes out the traditional residents because they don't have it.

            And it also creates internal conflict. Black voters in NYC split their ticket between de Blasio and Thompson because many of them saw BDB as the yuppie candidate. He only made inroads with them on the stop and frisk issue and by putting his (black) children in TV commercials. He threaded the needle perfectly.

            But that internal conflict within Democratic politics- of the hipster, yuppie Manhattan/Brooklyn types vs. the traditional establishment black, Hispanic, white working class types define New York City politics.

            •  It would have to happen slowly (0+ / 0-)

              Over a 10-20 year timespan, perhaps longer, to give more locals a chance to develop marketable skills and become better integrated into the regional, national and global economy that will make them economically able to hold their own over time. Thus, investments in education, skills training, local small businesses, parks, housing, infrastructure, etc., plus incentives to bring in outside businesses to take up the immediate slack and grow the local economy. It can't happen overnight, but in a generation, I believe it can.

              "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

              by kovie on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 05:49:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's going to take (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY

                a lot of patience and time that I'm not sure even most progressives have.

                When the effects aren't seen in five years, people will just declare it a failure and move on.

                •  There obviously has to be lots of local buy-in (0+ / 0-)

                  In fact most of the push has to come from locals, or it won't happen. Top-down progressivism only takes you so far. In fact not very far at all.

                  "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

                  by kovie on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 06:03:28 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It won't come from the locals (0+ / 0-)

                    they want things to work on their terms, not those coming in to gentrify.

                    •  Are you saying that locals are inflexible (0+ / 0-)

                      and unrealistic, or that the big bad yuppies are ruining everything that used to be so perfect...back in 1943 when WWII supplied plenty of good jobs?

                      If everyone stands their ground and says "No!" to change, nothing will every get better. Broken situations require some change.

                      "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

                      by kovie on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 08:04:58 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yes (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        charliehall2

                        I live here, that's exactly how they are.

                        •  That's too bad (0+ / 0-)

                          NIMBY often (but certainly not always) leads to decay. You can't have viable residential communities without viable business zones within a reasonable distance. Jobs don't just create themselves.

                          OMG I'm sounding like a moderate Republican! (Which, actually, isn't such a terrible thing if we're talking mid-70's moderate Republicans.)

                          My heart, though, will always be on the left. :-)

                          "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

                          by kovie on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 08:35:46 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            charliehall2

                            If you really want to see an interesting example of this, look up the QueensWay/Rockaway Beach Rail line debate in Queens and tell me what side you fall on.

                          •  I'm aware of it but haven't read much about it (0+ / 0-)

                            Based on what little I know, and being an outdoors/parks/bike trail person, my heart says turn it into another version of the High Line, with a bike trail. But it may be put to better use for rail. Don't know yet what I really think.

                            "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

                            by kovie on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 05:41:53 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Thats just it though (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            charliehall2

                            the working class in the Rockaways and South Queens wants a train, because commutes to jobs are long from there and they see the lack of public transportation

                            But a lot of progressive groups are pushing a park, and because of that these working class voters in the Rockaways, who typically vote Republican but offer some pretty progressive viewpoints, don't trust them. And these are the very people we're trying to reach.

                            It comes across as "we care about you and want to make your life better. What can we do to make your life better? A train? No, sorry, we want a park there so we can ride our bikes."

                          •  If it would really help commuters (0+ / 0-)

                            and there's no way to do both, I'd vote for the train, as much as I'd love for it to be a bike trail, being a cyclist myself. I rarely vote personal self-interest, generally putting what I view as the overall good above it.

                            That said, Queens desperately needs more bike trails. Those street lanes are a joke. Only a crazy person cycles on lower Parsons Blvd.

                            "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

                            by kovie on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 05:11:08 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Working class whites (0+ / 0-)

                            couldn't give two shits about bike trails. Any effort to build them is opposed by them.

                            That's your problem here.

                          •  Disagree (0+ / 0-)

                            Perhaps most don't, but some do. Lots of working class cyclists. Perhaps not so much with the $10k Pinarellos, but it's not an exclusively white yuppie thing. And I'm sure they appreciate them for walking too. It's a myth, one I especially loath, that working class people are anti-parks, nature and environment, and only affluent yuppies care about them. That's a RW meme that it's pushed for decades, and has partly succeeding in convincing many working class people that it's true. It's yet another cultural wedge issue the GOP has manufactured and exploited for its benefit, i.e. "Real men drink beer, watch football and BBQ, sissy libs like to ride fancy bikes in latex on bike trails".

                            "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

                            by kovie on Thu Jul 10, 2014 at 02:21:55 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  We have a similar issue in the Bronx (0+ / 0-)

                            with the former NYCRR Putnam line and the Old Croton Aqueduct Trail, not to mention a proposed new bike path along the Hudson.

              •  That's neither feasible nor desirable (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                brooklynbadboy, MichaelNY

                The people in these communities work and have skills.  They are just blue and pink collar jobs.  NYC needs to maintain space to allow these NYers to continue to live in the city.  Frankly, your plan sounds like the old corporatist rallying cry- give people new skills to better equip them to succeed in a changing world.  No, there is a need for clerks and teachers and civil servants and maintenance workers and servers and delivery workers.  And they have as much if not more a right (by virtue of history) to live in the city than the invading bourgeoisie seeking to consume the "urban experience" to fill the void their homogenous suburban backgrounds bred.  

                •  Those jobs are disappearing (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  fisher1028

                  to automation and outsourcing. How do you propose to replace them? Either retrain people for skills that are in demand, or bring jobs that demand their current skills to their areas. There is no Option C.

                  "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

                  by kovie on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 06:47:17 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I dont think so. (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    fisher1028, MichaelNY, lucid, orestes1963

                    Despite the preference in our politics for white collar work, things still have to be built, repaired, and moved around. The physical world does still exist. A nurse cant become an apps programmer, nor should a roads foreman need to become an IT consultant.

                    Real work still needs to be done. Folks just need to be paid more for doing.

                  •  Manufacturing in Brooklyn at least (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MichaelNY, kovie

                    is growing. The Navy Yard has a waiting list for space.  Kevlar Vests are one of the things made there. There is a need for steel fabricators, iron workers, pyrotechnic special effects, and other industries.

                    The threat of rezonings from manufacturing to residential puts a damper on people's willingness to make long term commitments or invest in expanding industry.

                  •  Oh, and caskets. How (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MichaelNY

                    Could I forget the South Brooklyn Casket Company right around the corner from the religious candle factory.

                    And we always need people that can rip up a sidewalk to repair a water line because the city ain't gonna do it for you.

                  •  Where is your proof? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MichaelNY

                    Again, you offer a corporatist mantra.  The professions I mentioned are those that are immune to automation (except perhaps clerks).  There will also be a need for teachers and civil servants and electricians, plumbers, etc.  And then there are the less skilled service jobs that aren't going anywhere either:  cab drivers and livery drivers, cleaners, and nannies, etc.  They have a right to affordable housing in the city- and not further and further to the edges.  

                    •  They mostly disappeared in the 60's (0+ / 0-)

                      and never fully came back. There was much more heavy and light industry in Brooklyn till the 50's due to WWII, the New Deal and other factors, that began to fade away in the 60's, especially as Asia became a manufacturing giant. A lot of "right to work" states also got many of those jobs, at much lower wages. Why do you think that previously vibrant, stable and self-sufficient areas of Brooklyn, upper Manhattan and the Bronx turned into run-down, crime-ridden ghettos in the 60's? What, the CIA was behind it? It was a loss of jobs!

                      Many of those jobs have come back. Or, rather, other jobs to replace them. But they pay less and offer less security and benefits. And today's better jobs tend to require skills. You don't think it's condescending to suggest that blue collar jobs, while of course perfectly fine, are the best most people can hope for in less affluent neighborhoods? Leave the better-paying tech and finance jobs to a more "traditional demographic"? This is what I hear you saying.

                      Of course better and more affordable housing needs to be built in places where its lacking. I never said otherwise. But better and higher-paying jobs have to be made available to people from areas that have traditionally been relegated to blue collar and service industry jobs, that don't require a 2 hr commute. The city's less well-off areas need to be improved in ways that benefit locals too, and not merely affluent outsiders looking for cheaper decent housing. And that can only come from bring more business to them.

                      "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

                      by kovie on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 05:52:55 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Your original comment (0+ / 0-)

                        referred to the present and future (those jobs are going away), so I don't understand why you offer a discussion of the 1960's.  I also don't understand how you conclude that I think blue collar jobs are the best most people can hope for.  I said no such thing.  What I said is that those jobs exist and must be filled and the people filling those jobs have a right to remain in the city- and not in new affordable housing, but in the homes in which they've lived for years in communities in which they've lived for years.  

                        So, the takeaway from this is, you have no evidence to support your talking point about people needing to be retrained for new jobs because their current jobs are disappearing.  It was your claim, after all.  

                        •  The jobs HAVE been disappearing (0+ / 0-)

                          and began to disappear in the 60's, due to changing economic realities. The present isn't disconnected from the past, believe it or not. Yes, jobs have been returning, especially since the 90's, and neighborhoods have been improving, but there's still a ways to go in many areas, and the key is more and better jobs, which has to include tech and other higher-paying jobs. We no longer live in a primarily blue collar economy and can't rely on such jobs to maintain the middle class. There are only so many of them to go around, and most of the manufacturing jobs simply aren't coming back.

                          And the evidence is abundant. Do you even read economists like Krugman?

                          "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

                          by kovie on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 03:00:26 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

          •  That's already been done and dusted (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MichaelNY

            the disease is now spreading south to Sunset Park, Bensonhurst, etc. as well as east and north.  

            •  Gentrification has both good and bad aspects (0+ / 0-)

              If you're saying it's all bad, then we're a society doomed. The country has been effectively gentrifying since the founding. Are you actually making a Jeffersonian argument for stasis in 2014? He was a catastrophic fool.

              "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

              by kovie on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 06:48:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Per my comment (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY

                I find the kind of gentrification overtaking Brooklyn, for example, to be a social ill.  Vibrant working and middle class (real MC) communities have been lost, neighborhood landmarks are gone, a bourgeois homogenization takes over and a lot of urban history is lost.  As a lifelong urban American, opposing this trend is not an indication of a "society doomed" (melodramatic, no?).  

                •  This kind of gentrification, ok (0+ / 0-)

                  But if you're opposed to all kinds, then you're the actual conservative in this discussion. All gentrification involves some loss. The better kind manages and minimizes it as best it can. And obviously I was referring to Jefferson's total opposition to progress, that some on the left as well as right echo. That's nuts.

                  "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

                  by kovie on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 05:56:11 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  NYC, like all big and old cities (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        notagain, MichaelNY

        is incredibly complex and multilayered, politically, in good and bad ways, and there's simply no way for a genuinely honest and earnest pol to succeed here on their own terms. They'd get eaten alive by both parties and all interests. Way too much money, power and privilege at stake and no one here gives up without a bruising fight. Hell, no one here gives up even with it.

        Plus, the Alec Baldwin factor, which makes everything even more complex.

        "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

        by kovie on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 05:27:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  How many Times (6+ / 0-)

    Do Progressive voters get kicked in the teeth by Democrats that are in office only because of those Progressives voters? If we Progressives really believe in the causes we fight for we have to stop living with the fantasy that the Democratic party will be a factor in any victory. We must have some way of uniting that will give a true count of the number of votes we represent. When you consider that MoveOn alone has more than 8 million members, we're talking about an election winning block of votes. If every angry Progressive voter agreed to vote as one, we would quickly see problems solved that we've been unable to get action on, ever. If a huge block of Progressive voters had an Elizabeth Warren caliber representative to bargain with Democrats we would finally see the tide turn in favor of decency. The alternative is to keep backing the Obama's, the Clintons, the De Blazios and to keep watching our causes go nowhere. They will however make some very fine, stirring Progressive speeches that will allow you to briefly imagine what winning would be like. Once elected with Progressive votes and support though Democratic strategy is to stop taking our calls while suggesting that we grow up and face reality. Forget getting angry at the GOP, it's Democratic betrayal that stops the forces for good from prevailing.

  •  Cuomo has de Blasio by the balls (13+ / 0-)

    De Blasio, who is not stupid, knows this. He knows very well that if he defies Cuomo, Cuomo can and will make life very difficult for NYC.

  •  Wowzah, strong rhetoric (10+ / 0-)

    I think this rhetoric is pretty silly, and you almost sound like a left wing version of Erick Erickson.

    de Blasio is going along with the rest of the NYS Democratic establishment and making peace with the IDC. I know you think the deal is bogus, but from what I'm hearing in New York most people think of it as a done deal. That may turn out not to be the case, but that would come as a surprise to a lot of people. If it works out, though, it's the clearest and best path forward to give Democrats control of the Senate and to advance progressive goals in New York. You may disagree with the tactic, but there's no reason to think de Blasio isn't trying to do the best he can to advance a progressive agenda. Cool it with unhelpful and inflammatory  "betrayal" language.  

    •  I don't get it (7+ / 0-)

      how is supporting fake Dems who work with the GOP to deny Dem control of the state senate the best path to give Dems control of the state senate?

      •  Because the IDC agreed to come back into the fold (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY, Justanothernyer

        The Democrats presumably will still need to win at least 1 Republican held seat to capture a majority, assuming Felder continues to caucus with the Republicans.  

        •  Yeah, I saw the "promise" (8+ / 0-)

          it wasn't to "come back into the fold", it was to form a majority coalition with the Dems.  There seems to be nothing binding about that and they could simply dissolve the coalition if they aren't getting their way.  Given their past behavior they don't seem trustworthy to me.

        •  Don't trust the IDC (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mannie, orestes1963, MichaelNY

          They have already stabbed us in the back.

          "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

          by resa on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 05:30:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's the risk de Blasio takes (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MichaelNY, Albanius, Phoenix Woman

            they go back on their word and the gamble doesn't pay off for him.

            They keep their word, DREAM Act passes, minimum wage goes up, maybe he gets his tax hike on the rich. Then DailyKos will forget this post ever happened and critics will use this as an example of how progressives are terrible at politics.

            De Blasio doesn't give a fuck if you think he's betraying you because in 2 years if a Democratic legislature in Albany enacts Democratic policy and he gets what he wants and moves forward a progressive vision, none of you are ever going to remember this happened.

            •  DeBlasio isn't doing this for the IDC (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mannie, debcoop

              he's doing it for Cuomo.  The IDC is Cuomo's perfect foil.  He has no intention of bringing them back in line because if he did it would have happened already or, at the very least, he would vociferously support their opponents.  

              •  He's doing it for himself (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY, Klugstah

                and his agenda, whether it be what you want or not.

                If it jives with yours, you're going to forget all about this.

                •  Look, I am happy (0+ / 0-)

                  to have a discussion, but do not try to tell me what I think.  

                  I thought it was understood from my comment that doing it for Cuomo reflects the benefits deB may derive from this move.  It never entered my mind that he was doing it for some altruistic reason.  

              •  Exactly right (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                IreGyre

                If Cuomo wanted the IDC in the fold he would have done it already. And they formed with his knowledge and blessing.

                Andrew wanted to rack up a huge reelection win which is why  he gave so much to the WFP.  But there was very little to hold the IDC to their pledge. And less and less so as the time goes on. And each one of the weapons to hold them accountable has been turned in at the door.

                What can still be done?

                Pressure the unions to support Democrats in open and contestable seat. pressure them  to support Dems in marginal seats.  The IDC doesn't need the help.

                The same goes for the Mayor. He wants a Democratic Senate, and he really does, to make it happen he should help reelect and elect Democrats on Long Island, in the Hudson Valley and upstate.

                Same for the Governor.  IF He REALLY WANTS IT. If indeed.

                Debra "But what I have concluded over the years is that talent is universal, but opportunity is not." SOS Clinton

                by debcoop on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 10:48:27 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  You are right (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Phoenix Woman

              But I still hope those bastards lose.

              Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

              by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 06:58:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  The IDC should be in the fold at this time (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MichaelNY, orestes1963

          Since yesterday, since the last month, since the last year, since 2012 elections.

          Why they did not? Why want they a white check until they be elected again, and they need nothing?

          It is logical that the people have not confidance in their word, because they failed to their Democratic voters building a Republican majority when their voters voted for a Democratic majority.

          They are imposing their strength over weak politicians, but they are not winning the confidance of the people. They people think legitimately that the IDC is playing dirty. Again.

          To have a strong Democratic majority in New York is only a question of time. The Republicans hold now 14 D+ seats (over 51.5% Obama 2012). Felder (in a R+10 seat) is a non factor.

    •  O rly? (6+ / 0-)

      You actually believe that these turncoats will keep their promise to return to the fold? I will bet you a Nathan's hot dog that they'll be back to their old tricks the day after Election Day. If they get re-elected, of course.

      I consider De Blasio's endorsement a sign of how nervous the IDC members are about November. I don't think it's going to help them, but I think it will hurt him. Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas and all that.

      "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

      by sidnora on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:30:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It will be a good harbinger (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mannie, sidnora

        if the turncoats are turned out on election day.  This reminds me of the anxiety after deBlasio and Liu won on the WFP line in 2009.  The Dem party was freaking out about the rising influence of WFP.  Well, a mere five years later and the WFP has become a joke.  Argh.

        •  They're a joke (0+ / 0-)

          with a lot of money and high-quality GOTV workers, though. And they won't cross DeB.

          "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

          by sidnora on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 08:02:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  It's a possibility (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DROzone, MichaelNY, Albanius

        Although most of the Democratic party establishment (including the Senate Democrats) seem pretty assured it won't. I don't think anyone really knows, except Klein and Savino. But it's pretty clear most of the unions and other elements of the left-leaning establishment want to go this route. The fact that de Blasio, and the WFP, are choosing to go along with it may not be the right choice, but I hardly think it constitutes a betrayal. Personally, I think it is the right choice. If they turn out getting burned by these guys again, it'll be much easier to gather enough support from the relevant players to move against Klein and company next cycle.

        I think it's worth pointing out here that some of the IDC's complaints about the Senate Democratic conference are legitimate. There have been numerous corruption issues, including with the leadership, and two current Senators and former majority leaders were arrested! As is typical of New York politics, it's a pretty ugly situation all the way around. And it can be pretty difficult terrain for a progressive to navigate.  I think de Blasio has done a pretty good job given a difficult situation, and I just don't find this kind of bomb-throwing from the left helpful.  

  •  I don't agree with everything (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Klugstah

    Blasio says or does. Same goes for every other politician in office, including my favorites. But when I disagree on an issue or two with a fellow liberal I never think that they are "betrayers". Jeez. Are all of us who disagree with you on something all betrayers?

    •  This is hardly a (7+ / 0-)

      mere disagreement.

      We're talking about inability to advance the dem agenda while in the majority because dems are busy advancing the repubs' agenda.

      The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

      by dfarrah on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:24:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The guy was a pure liberal for years (4+ / 0-)

        in NYC government. He's been mayor for 6 months, and based on a couple of "non-liberal" positions is now branded a "betrayer". Come on. This is no different than the way the Tea Party behaves when they brand someone a RINO for agreeing with Obama on something or other. We're not the extremists in this country, we're the sensible ones, remember?

        •  How do you define "pure liberal"? (0+ / 0-)

          And how does DeBlasio's record accord with your definition?

          •  When there were a dozen candidates (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            untorqued, MichaelNY

            running for Mayor, de Blasio was known as (and ran as) one of the most liberal of the bunch. He's always been a proud lefty. He also represents the financial capital of the world, and some people here don't think that such a fact should influence him. That's not reality, and this site is reality-based.

            •  Eh, not quite (0+ / 0-)

              You labeled him a "pure liberal" in governance.  Nothing you have offered here supports your contention.  Now, I'm sure you can support it because this is a reality-based site and you wouldn't throw out meaningless terms in such a space, right?

              The fact that deBlasio "was known as...one of the most liberal" candidates is irrelevant to your assertion.  Same for his self-labeling as a proud leftie.  Finally, your penultimate sentence is a non sequitur.  

              •  de Blasio spent years as a Sandinista. (4+ / 0-)

                Just how far to the left must one be to be considered a liberal by some of you guys?

                •  Reagan was a union leader (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Mannie

                  That's just dumb.
                  '
                  David Horowitz was a communist.

                  •  The guy is an outspoken liberal (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MichaelNY

                    politician chasing a liberal agenda for 8 years in the CC. But if you disagree with him on something, it is not a disagreement among liberals. No. He must not be a liberal. Because to be a liberal, you must be approved by a majority of the community at Dkos. And the first time you deviate from what we find to be acceptable, you are out forever. Great. Nice  philosophy.

                    •  Oh I agree the guy is a progressive (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Mannie, MichaelNY

                      You're citing his support for the Sandistas was stupid though.

                      And this was a betrayal.

                      That does not mean he is not a progressive.

                      I t means, a David Nir puts it, he betrayed progressives ON THIS.

                      I don;t understand what is so hard for some of you to understand about that.

                •  So you were just talking out of your ass? (0+ / 0-)

                  You referred to his history in government.  Back it up.  All you've thrown around are labels- one of most liberal candidates, a leftie, a sandinista.  You made the claim.  Why are you having so much difficulty backing it up?  

                  •  Ooooohhhh I can tell you what he did (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    orestes1963, MichaelNY

                    I was a constituent. He ignored phone calls and emails for months about an illegal rooftop addition on a factory conversion (pretty much assumed his constituents were lying until he could no longer ignore the notoriety of the architect), secured a spot rezoning for Toll Brothers in a manufacturing district next to a subsequently super funded open sewer, and as his last act as a city council member he tried to very quietly change the city charter to sell city owned property (a courtyard being used for parking) to a private school for a dollar so that they could expand. Luckily, the community got wind of that and was able to stop it.

                    So, that's what he did for me.

                •  Sandinistas weren't progressive (0+ / 0-)

                  You do know that Daniel Ortega agreed to a total ban on abortion in Nicaragua, even when the mother would certainly die without one?

                  •  Yep (0+ / 0-)

                    But was that the case during their previous period of rule?

                    Plus, they were progressive in many other ways. I have a friend who was a volunteer down there. I know that they did a lot to bring education and health care to the poor.

                    Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                    by MichaelNY on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 09:04:34 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  No, we're the taken-for-granted ones. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mannie, Pale Jenova, dfarrah

          I am an economic Keynesian, a social libertarian, a foreign policy internationalist, and militantly anti-authoritarian in every way shape and form.

          by zemongoose on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 05:54:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  On a literal level, has he betrayed (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Phoenix Woman, orestes1963

          the candidates running against the IDC members? If he had endorsed them previously, he's turned his back on that. That's certainly what the Working Families Party did, and that's arguably a betrayal, isn't it?

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 07:02:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You think you're sensible. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          seabos84

          I think people like you are the reason the US is in the shape that we are in now [in all areas, such as economics, education, poverty and homeless rates, infant mortality, prison populations, workers rights, environment, and the dominance of the plutocracy and police state].

          Because the dems just wanted to be sensible with Reagan, Bush, and GWB.  

          Now the dems have moved so far to the right [except on those oh-so-important social issues], there simply is no left of any political consequence.

          The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

          by dfarrah on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 08:39:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Who is really surprised by this? (8+ / 0-)

    Honestly?

    1.  BdB and Cuomo have been buddies for a long, long time.  They cut their political teeth together in DC.

    2.  Cuomo has already shown Bdb that he can and will fuck him legislatively if he wants or needs to - and with Cuomo having a reputation in Albany for being a vindictive snot, personal relationship or not, Cuomo has BdBs tenure as mayor (and BdBs balls) in a vice, and BdB knows it.

    The only way to stop this is with a progressive challenger to Cuomo performing well enough in a contest that it weakens him.  Teachout might be able to do that if she ends up getting on the Democratic primary ballot and pulls enough votes away to make him bleed.  TBQH, while I realize that Kos has a personal beef with Teachout (a beef with good reason), it might be time to put that aside and support the Teachout campaign here.  That is, if the real point - and priority-  is "crushing Cuomo"as Kos once stated on Twitter.

    Expose Cuomo to be weaker than most in Albany think he is, and there will be a lot more people in Albany willing to stand up to him and tell him to sod off when he comes huffing and puffing and threatening to blow their houses down.

    "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

    by Darth Stateworker on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:09:25 PM PDT

  •  Expectations (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    doc2

    Expecting perfection in politics is to be a Tea Partier.

    Still, De Blasio has to be taught there is a cost to his choices.

  •  No Honor among Thieves! (0+ / 0-)

    Liu is a dirt bag, just google his rapsheet on fundraising shenanigans

  •  I tried to warn you as did some (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sidnora, Bush Bites

    others but I got a lot of pushback.

  •  Please Please Please (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    spritegeezer, dfarrah, Jaimas

    Tell me one more time why I should vote Democratic.  This guy reeks of Third Way.

    A government afraid of its citizens is a Democracy. Citizens afraid of government is tyranny! Thomas Jefferson

    by wbishop3 on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:15:01 PM PDT

  •  Et tu, Bill? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    onionjim, tytalus

    Anyone arguing that there's no difference between the parties is a fucking moron who can simply go to hell. -- kos

    by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:16:59 PM PDT

  •  You betrayed us, Bill (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bush Bites, Jaimas

    We're not going to forgive you for this, and we'll remember it for a very long time.

  •  Gross me out! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    Just gross!

    Blessed are the hearts that can bend; for they can never be broken Albert Camus

    by vcmvo2 on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:21:17 PM PDT

  •  I hate to say (6+ / 0-)

    "I told you so", but I did, or at least I tried to. De Blasio, my former City Councilman and (temporarily ex) neighbor, has always been better at talking the talk than walking the walk. Am I the only one here who got exactly what she expected?

    "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

    by sidnora on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 04:22:31 PM PDT

  •  He's made some good appointments (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    orestes1963, Phoenix Woman

    Such as Carmen Farina, Steve Banks (who was one of de Blasio's opponent in 2001 and who I voted for), and Maya Wiley.

    My neighborhood is upset because our local hospital (LICH) has been sold off and Bill used the possible closure as a campaign platform and arranged to get arrested just like he did with our firehouse years ago. Both are lost but even Bill realizes he needs to do damage control on LICH and has embarked on a PR campaign via the Campaign for One New York and enlisting our neighbors to tell us we should be happy with the remnants and a box of Band-aids.

    Life is one big campaign to him.

  •  Is it any wonder why people are fed up? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lujane

    Universal pre-K has been on the Chamber of Commerce's list for a while. It's a nice initiative but it's pre-approved.

    http://www.politico.com/...

    In other words, it would likely have happened regardless of who was elected.

    •  i don't get the deal with universal pre-k (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fisher1028

      doesn't it already exist under the name headstart?

      idiosyncratic, slightly anarchist, darwinist, moral relativist, fan of satire

      by bonzo925 on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 07:48:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the issue was creating more seats (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY

        Pre-k seats in public schools (if the school offers Pre-K) are difficult to come by especially full day which many working parents need. Universal Pre-K also benefits parents who pay for private schools or are willing to forgo a deposit of thousands on a private school if their child gets a spot in a public school. Headstart this is not.

  •  We need to get behind Zepher Teachout. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie, orestes1963, Byrnt

    I'll do what I can for sure.

  •  This will be *remembered*, Bill. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie

    I have a long, bitter memory.

    So do many New Yorkers.

    And we're not going to forget you being an asshole.

  •  You do realize the republican party is so small (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pale Jenova

    in New York, we could back a third party candidate like Hawkins or maybe Socialist Alternative like Kshema Salwant and it wouldn't spoil anything.   If there is no spoiler effect what is the justification for only supporting Democrats?

  •  Just FYI..... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    orestes1963, MichaelNY

    Bill's been a big supporter of the Union during the MTA/LIRR talks. If, miraculously, we suddenly see Bill do a complete 180 and suddenly back Cuomo in trying to help break the Union (you know, after helping the Union for about 6+ months), then I am officially done with the NY Democratic party.

  •  Some of you (7+ / 0-)

    are utterly clueless on the dynamic of New York City politics.

    The Liu v. Avella and Koppell v. Klein races re about de Blasio and Mark-Viverito's ongoing feud with the Bronx and Queens Democratic organizations. Not about left vs. moderate

    Just yesterday the Queens Democratic Party, including Borough President Melinda Katz who is widely seen as the right wing alternative to de Blasio in 2017 for Democrats, backed Liu. De Blasio backed Avella largely to screw Queens Democrats, who sided with Quinn during last year's election and smeared BDB pretty badly in the race. Some of them even secretly backed Lhota in the general election.

    This is about internal NYC politics, not progressives and moderates.

    And frankly Avella, who I do think is on the ropes, was beloved by progressives before he went to the IDC, largely because he was otherwise marginalized in the Democratic caucus. His district wanted funds (i.e. senior centers, little leagues) that they weren't getting from the city council level because Avella's successor there was a hardcore right wing Republican pariah who ended up getting indicted and was essentially ignored by Christine Quinn.

    And frankly, anyone who is arguing that de Blasio is a disappointment as a progressive after he stuck his neck out there to oppose charter schools, struck pretty good deals with public unions, helped push through paid sick leave and is pushing through an increase in the minimum wage, I really don't know what else you want here.

  •  We're so hosed here in NY. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jaimas, Mannie, orestes1963, Pale Jenova

    For a supposed "blue state" I feel as if I live in Alabama.  That we continue to vote Dem for the presidential candidate every four years does not carry over for the other three "off years."  It's sickening that, in the years I should be enjoying my Barcolounger more, I can't get anywhere near it due to yahoos like Cuomo and de Blasio.

    Follow Connect! Unite! Act! MeetUp events! For live podcasting of your Event contact winkk to schedule.

    by winkk on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 05:20:34 PM PDT

  •  He's playing chess. Obama musta taught him. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MikePhoenix, Pale Jenova
  •  Sorry to say this was predictable (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fisher1028, MichaelNY, orestes1963

    Those of us who know De Blasio personally know he is fully willing to sell out his values and his supporters. He has sold out to developers before. This comes as no surprise to me.

    However, we really do have some good candidates for state senate, including Koppell, Liu, and Kemmerer. All three are excellent candidates who need our support.

    FREEDOM ISN'T FREE: That's why we pay taxes! Progressive Blogging New York: Write Now NY Find me on Linkedin.

    by mole333 on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 06:47:39 PM PDT

  •  He acts a lot like Obama presidency (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    swansong50, betterdemsonly

    Appeal to the base for votes. Then spit on them once in office. What's next, another bailout for the One Percent?

    And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

    by Pale Jenova on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 06:51:14 PM PDT

    •  If he's as transformative as the president (3+ / 0-)

      that'll be excellent. You're talking about a president who despite implacable Republican opposition and obstructionism got national health care passed and has done a lot to advance alternative energy and combat global warming.

      But frankly, he might have a chance to get more done, if the Republicans do indeed become truly the minority in the State Senate. And this is the way he thinks it will happen. I don't agree with his move, but boy oh boy are you barking up the wrong tree to compare him to Obama, as if that were a bad thing. Do you realize by how much Obama won in New York City both times he ran?

      Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

      by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 07:23:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sure, and I voted for Obama too (0+ / 0-)

        And Obama has improved with age . . . but that first two years of "Bail out a bank, punch a hippie, cave in to Republicans, rinse and repeat" likely added years to the Great Recession, as well as giving the Republicans back the House.

        This move by de Blasio strikes me more as "Look forward, not backward(tm)" with all the good that did us.

        And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

        by Pale Jenova on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 07:09:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm quite willing to accept (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Phoenix Woman, Pale Jenova

          a mayor who is quite liberal but not an absolute purist and runs the city well. He is not going to be asked to bail out banksters or avoid prosecuting war criminals. But your characterization of Obama's first 2 years ignores the stimulus, Lily Ledbetter, the Affordable Care Act, etc.

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 01:01:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  In all, a partial success at best (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MichaelNY

            Better than nothing but sabotaged by Obama's choices of advisers. A 2014 Obama combined with a 2014 Harry Reid would have done a whole lot more.

            But anyway, I agree with your characterization of de Blasio--he will surely be a better mayor than his predecessors.

            However, if the Democrats are stupid enough to nominate Andrew Cuomo to run for prez, do not expect me to vote for someone whose first act would be to make a "gentleman's agreement" with Mitch McConnell to turn the Senate over to the Republicans.

            (On the other hand, McConnell won't be there, but hey. Patterns, patterns . . .)

            And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

            by Pale Jenova on Thu Jul 10, 2014 at 07:05:59 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  hahaha! So true, so true.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pale Jenova
  •  Politics: the Art of the Possible (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DROzone, MichaelNY

    Who are the alternative candidates for Hizzoner and Guv?

  •  Is this really surprising? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fisher1028

    He has higher goals than Mayor of New York City. He's playing the game, and he wants to keep moving up.

    •  You think so? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman

      I think he's probably too liberal to win a Gubernatorial election. So what else?

      Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

      by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 07:23:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  People think he's farther left than he is (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY

        He talks the talk, but has he ever walked the walk? He appears to just be a populist. If the message is popular he can win pretty easily. I don't think De Blasio is any farther left than Spitzer, and honestly Cuomo's "moderate" New Dem garbage isn't necessarily what handed him the win. He had a good campaign, good funding, and a weak opponent.

        •  Good point about Spitzer (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Phoenix Woman

          He was a genuine liberal and romped in his run for Governor. Too bad about how he performed as Governor, though.

          I would very much like to see De Blasio as Governor, if that could ever happen.

          By the way, all the talk about De Blasio as being friendly with developers is hardly a shock. Landlords are very wealthy in New York, so I take it for granted that their interests will always be catered to. If while catering to their interests, De Blasio also does something effective to help non-rich people stay in New York closer to Manhattan than someplace like Jamaica, I think that'll be great.

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 08:30:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  DeBlasio sucks (3+ / 2-)
    Recommended by:
    IndieGuy, Brecht, emelyn
    Hidden by:
    Albanius, cville townie

    Where the f--- is New York?  This moron can switch sides all he wants - like any other Rethug that exists today.  Sorry Bill - where DO you stand?  The middle ground?  Where  you're currently SINKING? Or on our side?  You decide.  

  •  As usual (0+ / 0-)

    "Radical's" (it doesn't really matter - which radicals - right-wing, as is a case for Republicans, or left-wing - otherwise) voices, activity, money, work are needed by establishment only during campaign phase, not later on. To "govern" establishment doesn't need anybody.... At least it thinks so...

    •  That really doesn't sound right to me (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman

      I think De Blasio is no more nor less liberal today than he was yesterday. He just needs money and permission for things like a lower speed limit and higher minimum wage from Albany, and this is the way he thinks he's more likely to get it.

      Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

      by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 09:50:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not about being liberal or conservative (0+ / 0-)

        It's more about how you get elected (with help of "enthusiasts", especially if you have or had conflicts with "machine") and how you govern (usually - with help of the above mentioned "machine" or becoming mainstay of "machine" himself and only rarely - by building or bringing new one)

        •  I'm unconvinced that he isn't still somewhat (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Phoenix Woman

          of a reformist. It's just that in New York State, the budget is negotiated by the Governor, the Speaker of the Assembly and the Majority Leader of the Senate. The powers of the city government are very limited, and in order to get much done, he needs friendly people in positions of power in Albany.

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 10:00:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MichaelNY

            What i tried to stress - the people frequently are too quick to "find their heroes" (in this case - a "progressive hero") and then - to get bitterly disappointed in them. "Heroes" rarely survive in pragmatic and cynical political world..

            •  What it amounts to (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ragmod

              is absolute purism is easy if you aren't in a government position, especially an Executive position. The only Executives who can be absolute purists are people none of us would want to have ruling us (Stalin, Mao, Franco, et al.). I don't like this move by De Blasio at all. But I'm not willing to tell him to go fuck himself. He's still Mayor of New York, and I wish him well because I wish us well.

              Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

              by MichaelNY on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 10:23:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Preach Glad to see this blunt and honest post. (0+ / 0-)

    Preach

    Glad to see this blunt and honest post.

  •  'Transactional politics at its very worst'? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY, Phoenix Woman

    Transactional, yes, but worst???
    How about Lanny Breuer declining to prosecute banksters who stole trillions and evicted thousands of people with forged documents, retiring to a $4 Million a year job with the same banksters?  How about Cheney meeting with Big Oil execs behind closed doors, and pushing through a bill that exempts fracking from the Safe Drinking Water Act etc?

    This is sausage making. DeBlasio, major unions and the WFP cut a deal, which if the other side holds up their end, will raise the wages of millions of low income workers by up to 45%, lead to effective public financing of campaigns throughout NY State, and end GOP control of the Senate, the principal barrier to progressive legislation across the board.  In exchange, BdB, the unions and the WFP agreed to make peace with slimeballs they had been fighting.

    Keeping his end of the deal, ugly as it looks, is a calculated risk. All the cynics piling on BdB seem to assume that Klein and Cuomo are more ideological than DeBlasio, and will renege on a very public deal out of reactionary principle.  IMHO they are more opportunistic than principled, and are likely to keep their end, especially if WFP and the unions are able to GOTV to hold Senate seats of one-term progressive D's like Tkaczyk and Gipson, and perhaps take out some vulnerable R's like Libous.

    Time will tell.  

    There's no such thing as a free market!

    by Albanius on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 09:54:55 PM PDT

  •  Mayor Lando de Blasio (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Whimsical Rapscallion

    "I had no choice. They arrived right before you did. I'm sorry."

    Pragmatic progressive. Oregonian, Cascadian, and American. Keeper of the DKE glossary.

    by SaoMagnifico on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 10:26:22 PM PDT

  •  You're expecting too much from de Blasio. (5+ / 0-)

    I think some of it is that people actually bought the Republican attacks on de Blasio where they tried to red bait him as some sorta extreme "sandinista" lefty.  In many ways he's the "what if?" mirror of Christine Quinn.  She won and became speaker and became the establishment.  He lost with a similar profile and attacked her for it.  But both were cozy with developers.  Both were "reform" Democrats who danced with the political machines they once opposed and at times pretended to oppose.

    She in many ways sold her soul to become speaker and we in New York City very appropriately punished her for it.  He was never so tempted and his short term defeat for City Council Speaker became his long term victory.

    And until the end the Mayors race he really never tried to run to the left of the field.  Even if he tried to position himself slightly to the left of Quinn.  Certainly not to the left of John Liu.  de Blasio waffled on a lot of issues.  And until the court decision knocking down stop and frisk his opposition to it was pretty tepid policy wise.

    I was actually surprised he expressed any willingness to go against the IDC.  The case of John Liu is pretty obvious.  Liu ran against de Blasio for Mayor.  And the Queens Democratic Party (which backed Chrstine Quinn and is now backing de Blasio) was the ringleader in trying to get a council speaker who was not beholden to de Blasio.  He does not view them (or John Liu) as his friends.

    On his legislative agenda the Democratic Caucus leadership backed Andrew Cuomo whereas the IDC gave at the very least lip service to backing de Blasio.  Now of course their alliance with the Republicans made that backing little more than lofty press releases.  And this had a lot to do with the IDC catfighting with Andrew Cuomo over campaign finance reform.

    And backing a doomed fight against Klein is bad politics on de Blasio's part.  If the Democrats retain their majority and the IDC agreement with Andrew Cuomo remains the IDC / Democratic "power sharing" agreement will probably looking like the ones they have with the Republicans.  And in a "four men in a room" scenario where one of them is Jeffrey Klein the last thing de Blasio is going to want is to make an enemy of Klein.

    The lady was enchanted and said they ought to see. So they charged her with subversion and made her watch TV -Spirogyra

    by Taget on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 10:55:15 PM PDT

  •  Run as a progressive (0+ / 0-)

    Govern as a corporatist.

    sounds familiar.

    May you always find water and shade.

    by Whimsical Rapscallion on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 07:05:31 AM PDT

  •  Ask Us Californians Nice (0+ / 0-)

    We'll tell you how to get rid of this traitorous dog! We've dumped mayors and governors and we'll happily do it again!

    THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. -- L. Ron Hubbard Technique 88

    by xenubarb on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 08:29:58 AM PDT

  •  Bill de Blasio Betrays Progressives! (0+ / 0-)

    I knew right after he was sworn in that the was a liar. He said one of the 1st. bills he would pass is the horse drawn carriages. I see their still pounding the streets everyday. Thats okay, he'll be a one term Governor! You can only fool us once and then you're out! We've already have enough liars in office and we're going to get rid of alot of them in Nov. it doesn't matter what party your in, if you can't keep your word and be trusted you outa here!

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