So I'm going to try this once more, in an effort to try and start dialogue. If this doesn't work, then I will sincerely feel very sad for the closed-mindedness that is present.
First, some history: I am a progressive and a Democrat. I register as Dem, I vote Dem straight down the ballot. Would I vote Green, if I could without hurting the Dem coalition? Perhaps, but that situation is pretty rare nowadays. I was a constant poster on DailyKos after 2000, and actually did quite a lot of work on the statistical irregularities present post-Kerry loss in Florida. I am also a scientist. I also shop at Whole Foods, and believe in holistic health practices.
My original account from after the 2000 election doesn't seem to work, and I haven't actively engaged in comments on DailyKos for years. Earlier today, I made a new account and posted, what I felt was a very even-keeled, logical, and science-based comment trying to share my position. It was instantly troll-rated, and I was unable to post anymore. So this is my second and last attempt to start a reasonable, science-based dialog around vaccination.
I'm posting here to try and have a reasonable vaxx vs. anti-vaxx discussion, without name-calling and personal attacks.
Here's a simple pdf report from a governmental service that has paid out claims to families who have had children die from vaccinations:
http://www.hrsa.gov/...
Since 1988, they have paid out claims for over 1,500 deaths attributable to vaccines. There have been 14,500 additional claims paid out to injury, but not death.
What is this governmental service? It is the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, funded by federal taxes on all vaccines, and uses resources from the Health and Human Services agency, the US Court system, and the DOJ. All vaccine injury payments are evaluated and approved by the US Federal Claims Court system.
As a parent of 2 year old, data like this gives me great pause. What is the actual incidence of complications from vaccination? How come I can't find this data online? What risk am I really putting my child in by following the federal mandate of 36 total vaccinations prior to age 6? It's obviously more than just a fear-mongering bogeyman risk if there has been almost $3BN dollars in compensation claims paid out to vaccine-related injuries or death by a federal agency.
The two important questions, I think, are: (1) Does the risk of vaccination out-weigh the risk of non-vaccination? (2) If the answer is yes, then does the increased health risk due to vaccination out-weigh the risk to public health?
Unfortunately, the whole debate is fraught with so much fear-mongering, politics, and personal attacks from both sides of the debate that I can't find clear answers to these questions.
Certainly answers are never black and weight, but if I were planning another medical procedure, say angioplasty, or chemotherapy, I could reliably find evidence in support or against the therapy. In this case, data is obfuscated, unavailable, or simply non-existent. It's a pity, because it honestly should be pretty easy to do some simple risk assessments of it all.
I think, from a science-based perspective, several questions are easy to answer:
(1) Q: Have vaccines decreased (or almost eliminated) the incidence of wild measles outbreaks in the US?
A: Yes.
(2) Q: Have vaccines decreased (or almost eliminated) the incidence of wild measles deaths in the US?
A: Yes. Well, duh. See (1).
(3) Q: Have modern health practices throughout this century decreased the incidence of wild measles related deaths in the US?
A: Yes.
(4) Q: Do vaccines have side effects, including, possibly, death?
A: Yes. See above section.
The following questions, I think are the hard ones that require more scientific study and assessment:
(5) Q: What would be the incidence of death or serious injury from the wild measles virus in 2014, given proper modern healthcare and nutrition practices?
A: unknown, but available - Extrapolating from international data would probably be the best way to answer this question.
(6) Q: What is the incidence of death or serious injury from the MMR vaccine?
A: unknown, but also available - some extrapolation from the VICP data, with a model for non-reports, plus national vaccine rates could work for this - or just raw data collection.
(7) Q: What are the effects on herd immunity from non-vaccination?
A: unknown, but an epidemiologist should be able to help create a model.
(8) Q: What are the effects on herd immunity from the current vax policies?
A: This is largely positive, but can we actually quantify it? There are studies that show that the attenuated virus can be spread, as well as other studies that have shown that innoculated people with titers can spread viruses even while vaccinated.
I believe actually doing the research and finding scientific answers to (5) and (6) help parents make a personal risk assessment, and (7) and (8) help parents make a public health risk assessment.
So there's a lot here, and I'm hoping beyond hope that this diary, rather than being troll rated and hidden will actually spark meaningful and rational discussion.